3 Most Important Meetings for Your Gym with Ben Pickard

[00:00:00] Hello, fitness, business nerds. What’s up? Welcome to another episode of the business unicorns podcast. And I’m back again with Ben. What’s up, my friend. Hi, thanks for having me. Yeah. I’m so excited to have you back. I know that every time you’re on the podcast, we always talk about something really fun and I feel like we can always talk about it for nine hours.

So our challenge is to always try and keep it fucking brief. And we’re going to do the same today, but but our topic. Before we announce our topic, I want to just give a quick shout out to this tool that we have on our website that’s free for all of you to go download right now. It’s called our Ultimate GemOwner Report Card.

Ben, you want to tell them what the tool is and, why they should use it? Yeah, 100%. So it is a self assessment tool that you can use to identify where you’re strongest and where you need to do the most work in the six key areas of your fitness business. And if you’re like me, when you’re not just starting out, but even really to be well established feels like you have to do everything all the time.

And the purpose of this report card is you don’t have to do [00:01:00] everything all the time. Here’s the areas, here’s the different categories per area. Focus on the ones that are the biggest problems for you in that moment. And it gives really clear directions and really clear priorities because like with our training clients, we know that if they want to change 17 habits all at once.

They make no fucking progress, but if they do a couple habits every couple months, a year later, they’re the person that everyone’s what diet did you do to get in shape in the last 30 days? How did you do that? Yeah. And when it comes to our gyms, it’s the exact same way that consistent, steady progress behind the scene with focus.

Key priorities is what turns our gyms into the ones that we’re looking up to now. Yeah, beautifully said. Yeah. I couldn’t have said it better myself. So friends go to our website, businessunicorns. com. It’s a link at the top to download the ultimate gym in a report card and take a self assessment use as a way to check in and see how you’re doing at building lasting systems in your business over time.

Check it out. It’s free. So today’s topic Ben [00:02:00] you’re doing such a great job already. Why don’t you just take over this podcast? What are we talking about today? Today we’re going to talk about the three key meetings that you absolutely need to have in your training gym. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe since you announced the topic, I’ll kick it off by saying that I think meetings sometimes sound like a dirty word.

In business, right? And there’s a lot of books and people out there who tell you the whole point of business is to not have any fucking meetings. If you’re having more than one meeting a week, you’re having too many. And listen, I think there’s absolutely some wisdom in you can have too many meetings.

Yes. 100 percent meetings are expensive. If you’re paying your people to be there, having all of your people as your team grows and grows all in the same room at the same time paying them for that hour, it’s a lot. You better be make good use of that time. So yes, I want to start this podcast by saying you can absolutely have too many meetings and some places do.

The thing that I see with small businesses, particularly gyms, is you don’t have enough. You don’t have enough of the most important meetings. consistently enough [00:03:00] for them to be effective and you don’t have an agenda for those meetings. So whenever you are having them, you’re fucking winging it and of course you’re not getting results, right?

And I say that with love, right? We winged it for a long time at MFF and then we, as we reigned it in, we start to see results. It’s like people who go to the gym and do a little, this little, this without a plan and don’t recognize, and are surprised by not getting results. Same things.

If you’re having meetings with no plan and no intention, you’re not going to get results. So that’s me. Yeah, good. And if you’ve been trying meetings and having no intention and no results, that doesn’t mean meetings don’t work. Don’t admit it. It means you’re just not very good at it yet. And that’s totally okay.

Totally. Yeah. So let me, I’ll maybe let’s I’ll introduce the three and then maybe you can jump in and give some of them some more color. So the three meetings we think all of you should have is a weekly leadership meeting at unicorn society. We we call this a weekly mission control meeting.

And it’s based on our framework, Phenicorn’s process, but Ben will break that down. So there’s a weekly leadership meeting and we’ll talk about what that looks like in a second. There’s also a [00:04:00] regular full staff meeting. And I say regular because we’ll talk about the pulse for this, but depending on whether you have a big team, a small team, all full time, all part time, how often it happens might change, but it has to happen regularly and consistently with your whole team.

Team and then the third kind of meeting that all of you should have with some pulse We’ll talk about our preferences here is one on ones meaning everyone who works in the business Except for the owner should have a one on one with a person who manages them and as an owner We recommend you having a coach that you meet with Exactly you meet with Ben So those are the three meetings a week, you know a weekly mission control meeting or high level leadership meeting a regular Full team meeting and regular one on ones with managing the direct reports.

So let’s just start with the first one, weekly mission control, leadership meeting kind of breakdown, Ben, like, why do we need this meeting? And what’s it look like? Yeah, absolutely. And in broad strokes, it’s essentially about the health of the business. You’re not talking. [00:05:00] Really at all of its specific fitness things.

So when you’re going through that meeting, we have a really structured agenda that works impeccably well, and I’ll give the caveat that for anyone who is listening to this podcast, who is a member and has rolled it out, you can probably attest that for the first little bit, it feels really uncomfortable.

And about a month later, they’re like, holy shit, this is the best meeting we’ve ever had. So the mission control meeting is covering some key items such as how are you doing on your weekly metrics? Are you getting enough leads? Are you getting too many terminations? Are you having enough? Are you hitting their targets for session utilization?

The lead indicators that You want to make changes to if they’re not on track, so you can hit your goals. We’ve also got some things in there. I’m not going to beat every topic to death, but around touching base on how are we doing with our quarterly projects? And even if you don’t follow the frameworks for Unicorn System, You probably are still working on projects, so you should touch base about how’s that thing we’re working on going.

In addition to that you’re going to possibly be looking at some of the business financial health. You’re going to be setting [00:06:00] talking about the to dos or the action steps from the last meeting to make sure that things are getting done and there’s a cadence of accountability. And of course, you’re going to be dealing with issues and opportunities to assign action steps that you’ll follow up with on the next week.

So it’s a really important meeting that’s usually the owner and their leadership team. Which your leadership team might just be like you and a head coach or you an admin and a head coach. It doesn’t have to be You know, we’re not fortune 500, 500 companies for the most part, but you’re really talking about the business and making sure everybody is moving forward as a cohesive unit.

I love that way you described it, Ben. And you start off by saying it’s about the overall business’s health, right? Are we clear on what our goals are for this quarter? What projects we’re working on? Are we clear? Are we completing them or not? Are we on track? Are we not? Are the leading indicators or key metrics that we’re tracking showing us that things are moving in the right direction?

Are we getting leads? Are people staying long enough? Are we paying attention to the things that are broken and fixing them quickly? Are we leveraging opportunities that, that that we find [00:07:00] or or create? And so I think you really outlined a big piece of it. And for many of you who are just getting started, this meeting might just be a solo meeting for a little while.

For a little while, it might just be you as the owner sitting down for an hour and asking yourself those questions and tracking those metrics yourself. It’s a moment of an hour of personal reflection for you about how are things doing and everything heading on the right direction. It’s a moment to think about working on the business instead of in it.

And then as your team grows, hopefully you add more people to this meeting that serve as real leaders. Yeah, or to develop them into leaders. Exactly. It’s a great opportunity for that. Yeah. Okay, cool. So that one’s weekly. And I think you described the agenda really well. Let’s move on to the second one because we can talk about all these for an hour.

But that’s I think a clear picture of what that is. The second one is really about full team meetings. So talk a little bit about what the pulse could look like. What do you do in a full team meeting to make it effective? Absolutely. Yeah, I’ll start with the pulse because that really can vary based on the structure of your team.[00:08:00]

If you have a Everyone almost is full time. It probably makes sense, at least in my opinion, to do this on a weekly basis. Versus if you tend to have, eight trainers who all work five to ten hours a week each it’s probably not a great use of your resources to pay them for an extra hour of just meeting time every week.

So that’s where I’d be looking at maybe like bi weekly and I could maybe be convinced about monthly depending on the structure. But it is going to vary a little bit based on your business. But no matter what, it’s still booked in advance and it’s still non negotiable, whatever cadence you choose. Can you say that again for the people in the back who maybe didn’t hear as well that last part?

Cause it’s so critical and some people skip this consistently. Yeah. Book it in advance and make it non negotiable. If you have it in, when we, our team meeting is Tuesdays at 1 PM. We tell people that on day one, we add them to the meeting on day one, it is in their calendars from day one and it repeats until infinity and you are [00:09:00] allowed to miss it if you’re on vacation, like you don’t have to be there.

But unless you’re in the hospital or on vacation, everyone is ready at that meeting 5 minutes before and the way we’ve been able to make that work. Is that as a cultural standard that we have enforced for, Oh, I don’t know, five years now, it’s, if you couldn’t make it Tuesday at 1 PM team meeting, and you wanted to be a trainer with me, that realistically would probably be a deal breaker.

Well said, and I’ll say this same thing on MFF for, up until COVID we had a Wednesday midday meeting for. 10 plus years. Since COVID, we moved to bi weekly for all the reasons Ben just mentioned, but it is still consistent, scheduled so far in advance, like on our calendar six, for the whole year, it’s just on there by default.

And so I think that’s really crucial because the consistency of the meeting is a message from you, a leader saying, this is what matters to us. Us coming together to have this dialogue, which Ben’s going to talk to you about in a second, is important to us. So [00:10:00] important that it’s on our counters for the whole year, and we do it consistently above all else.

This is the moment where we come together, and that message is so critical. It builds trust. Helps you appear, not just appear, but be consistent as a leader by saying, by doing what you say you’re going to do. So anyway, so talk maybe a little about the agenda, Ben. What, what needs to happen in a meeting that’s a full team meeting?

Yeah, absolutely. So I’ll start with, I used to run my team meeting like a mission control meeting. Didn’t work super great for me. It just felt a little bit like there was just friction. So we used to review the scorecard, talk projects, all that stuff. And in the last year and a half, since Alicia, my general manager has joined the team.

I’ve given her the freedom to make some adjustments as she sees fit, as long as some key things are still hit. So we always start every team meeting with some gains. Everyone shares what’s a couple things that are going well. And that’s just a segue to get people focused. Because if they just finished a training session and they’re coming in, or they’re answering that email, or having that program in the back of their mind, it [00:11:00] gets everyone present and focused on the meeting.

Plus, celebrating gains regularly. It makes us happier, as I can attest to. After that we still do a little bit of business health, but it’s very generally vague. So it’ll, it won’t be like, here’s how many leads we got. This was our conversion percent. But we’ll talk about, Hey guys, our marketing is going on track.

Here’s the updates on the upcoming projects. Here’s the things that we’ve got coming in the pipeline. But the real goal of that is we wanna show transparency between the leadership team and the coaches so they don’t get sidelined with anything. And I was really guilty of doing this before where I just kept everything in my head.

And expected them to be telepaths, which in hindsight is ridiculous, but at the moment, I’m like of course you should know this. I know it. Why don’t you know it as we’re saying, Hey, guys, our community parties coming up on September 25th. Here’s the outstanding to do’s and here’s what we’ve done so far.

We hired a new marketing company and things are going well. The website’s being updated. We’ll need your bios for next week. It’s 5 minutes of here’s where the ship is going. Everything’s good. [00:12:00] Or sometimes it’s not all good and here’s where we need some help. After that, the biggest section of our team meeting, which we found works really well and probably wouldn’t scale to MFF size, but for a lot of gyms like mine, is we talk about client highlights and lowlights.

So we spend probably about 30 minutes and we have a system where we have a, we know who we’re talking about. We don’t go through the whole exhaustive list of clients. And if any clients had like kick ass things happen, you want the whole team to know so that in case somebody else talks to them and be like, Michael, I heard you just got a new puppy.

Congratulations. What’s his name? And it just shows really good team communication. And then even more importantly, we talk about the low lights of who slipped and fell on ice. Who’s rocky, who’s missing some stuff. Did they have a death in the family? We have a lot of 50 plus clients, so there’s actually a lot of clients whose parents are perfect.

It seems like their parents are always dying because of the people we deal with and we want to know like where they’re coming from, where they’re emotionally at and is there anything anyone needs to do to step in and [00:13:00] help? After that we moved to reviewing every single person who is currently on an LBO and needs to be converted.

So our third main client list, it’s like top 5 percent bottom 5 percent highlights and lowlights. Our list of trial goers is Every single person, line by line, and we go through our member onboarding process. Hey, Sally’s on week two. Michael, you’re her coach. How’s she doing? We expect you to become prepared for this.

Cool. She’s about to go into week three. That means you, and you have action steps. Any questions about those? And we do that for each person on trial. I love that. I think it’s a really solid agenda, Ben. I love that you start with connecting with your team. I love that you cover updates and have full transparency to where the business is heading.

I love that you’re talking about clients and making sure you’re getting ahead and talking about converting leads and, LBO clients. So I think it’s solid agenda. I don’t know if I have much to add. I think that’s. Awesome. I think the only way I’ll just maybe list a few other things people could consider doing in a team meeting, which I [00:14:00] know you’ve done from time to time as well, which is one is I think, when you’re at the beginning of a meeting connecting with everyone in the room, then sometimes it’s also a good time to, to review things like your mission statement, like your values are good to be integrated into your team meeting from time to do is from time to time you want to use your team to solve problems.

So like talking about issues that have come up and brainstorming solutions together. So they feel like they’re part of making the place better on a regular basis. That’s a good, I forgot to say that, but we do have a slightly different version of issues and opportunities that we discussed as a team and it’s really valuable for team cohesion.

Yeah, 100%. So some team problem solving, stuff like that is really valuable. I also think it’s a good opportunity to sometimes do some learning as a full team. And if not learning, at least review or testing them on past learning. So if you recently rolled out a few SOPs in, the month previous, the month of prior to the team meeting, then quiz them.

Test them, quiz them in writing, quiz them [00:15:00] verbally, ask them to demonstrate whatever that new SOP is. I think team meetings can also be a great place to, to have learning or reinforce learning to make sure that what you taught them most recently has stuck, but I think you’re on the right track.

And then the last thing I know we both do is at the end of a meeting, we usually summarize any takeaways or any key action steps that everyone has to do. And we usually ask them to rate the meeting scale of one to 10. How was today’s meeting for you? Sometimes meeting and a rating and a word.

So scale one to 10, how is this meeting for you? And one word, describe your experience. And obviously it helps you as a leader understand how to make your meetings better and better. Yeah. And just like you, you mentioned it, but I just want to give a little bit of color to it when it comes to summarizing your action steps or to do list.

What that actually means is literally reading the list step by step. Cause let’s say you spent 20 minutes talking about problems and doing some group problem solving as a team. By the time you get to the last one, they’re going to forgot what you decided about the first one. So we do a really quick Ben’s going to do this, Michael’s going to do that, Mark’s going to do this, Ben’s [00:16:00] going to do this other thing.

Any questions about that? Great. Rate this meeting on a scale of 1 to 10. I’m a big fan of number and a word because my team comes up with hilarious creative words for shit. And it’s just a fun way to end the meeting, but still maintain a way for the person running the meeting to get feedback to make it better next time.

100 percent Ben, we do this as well in our meetings for business unicorns, and Ben asked me for a rating and a word. And I always give like a paragraph. It’s just I almost never can think of a single word. I try. I promise. I try just a lot of hyphenated words. It’s okay. It’s a lot of hyphenated.

It’s a run on word. All right, cool. So we talked about weekly mission control meetings. We just talked a bunch about team meetings. So there’s A lot of ideas there, and I think you’re right that it’s either weekly or bi week or maybe in some cases monthly. The last, the third meeting we think is really important is one on one meetings.

This is where everyone on your team has a regular, and again I’m using the term regular because it might change conversation, sit down conversation, usually about 30 minutes. Can be an hour, but depending on the pulse, 30 minutes is usually enough. [00:17:00] And talk a little bit about why this meeting matters, Ben.

And again, what the agenda is likely to be. Absolutely. I think one of the main reasons that I think this matters, which I’m stealing from a company in town, that’s run by friends is. Especially if you as the owner are the, essentially the GM, meaning you don’t, if you don’t have a GM, you are the GM by default.

It’s really good like CEO time and it’s a place to connect with your trainers. It’s a place for them to feel heard. It’s a place for them to give you. honest feedback, or as honest as you’re going to get out of someone who, life ahead depends on you. And you can craft an agenda that, and through your skill set, having these meetings is have a safe space to really know what’s going on with your team.

And it’s been stuff that has helped us no, do they want more sessions? Do they not need more sessions? Are they having a hard time with a thing that we can temporarily take off their plate? So I want to be clear, there’s still a very structured system to this. But especially in a gym where most of us are open at 5 or 6 AM and usually go to 8 or 9 PM.

And sometimes trainers don’t even see [00:18:00] each other depending on their shifts. And they don’t always have a lot of interaction with the owner if you want to be home for dinner ever. It’s like one of the few times we’re actually going to have that face to really be like. How are things truly going?

What’s going on? Share some wins, share some frustrations. I think that’s a great point. And, people who’ve listened to this podcast more than a few episodes have probably heard me say this before, but my summary of why this, these kinds of meetings matter is that leadership is about relationships.

Right. Leadership is about relationships and you really, one of the best ways to improve and build, trusting growth, fostering relationships is in one on one conversation is in dialogue and to spend time together to know each other and get on the same page and, put some marbles in the trust jar.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Shout out Brene Brown. Brene Brown. It’s just, if you want to be a great leader, you need to spend time investing in your relationships with your people. I’m not saying you have to be besties, right? But these [00:19:00] one on ones ensure that no one is hiding in the shadows.

No one feels forgotten about no one feels undervalued underappreciated. They feel like they’re contributing. They feel like they belong They feel like they’re seen by you that their contribution matters, right? So all of this is the definition of good leadership. So that’s why these one on ones are just so crucial walk us through like your ideal agenda for these men knowing they could be lots of things but these meetings to require an agenda Yes, absolutely.

I do not think you should have a meeting unless you have an agenda Yeah. Full stop. Full stop. Yeah. So I still, I like to start with gains. Even if I just had the team meeting and the next day I was meeting with the staff member, I would still start with gains. What’s been going personally and professionally, just get the ball rolling and get into a positive headspace.

After that, there’s usually a couple of custom things depending on the person, but there’ll be a bit of accountability in there. So maybe that’s what are you doing for continuing education or you had this other thing you’re working on. How’s that going? Cause remind you. Remember. Reminder, everybody needs [00:20:00] some accountability.

So you following up on that is often a huge piece from there. We’ll usually talk about action steps from last meeting like so as a general idea by default, whatever frequency your meetings are, is the default cadence for action steps. So if me and Michael meet every week. The default, even if it’s unsaid, is our shit is done every week.

If we meet every month, our shit should be done every month. Obviously, some stuff can be faster or slower, but you should be following up to close the communication loop so everyone’s on the same page. After that, I like to give some space for feedback and ideas. I don’t want it to feel like I’m just talking at the team the whole time or the team member.

So I’ve tried variations of like start, stop, and keep doing. And that’s something you need to show up prepared with. Or five, five, five, which is basically the same thing. Five things going well. Five things that aren’t. Five things that shouldn’t need to change. But it’s really a time for them to give some feedback.

And I’m listening for the, [00:21:00] I’m trying to read between the lines. Sometimes it’s going to be a tactical thing like that new client is a thorn in my side. They’re an energy vampire. Can you talk to them? But other times it’s just stuff that’s I’m feeling this about that other team member or something else is grinding my gears.

And it’s a safe, confidential space. And by starting with a couple open ended questions, even if they go. Super tangentially I still learn a shitload and I get a lot of marbles in that trust jar, especially if I’m practicing coaching conversation skills. Yeah, I think it’s a great start to an agenda, honestly.

You covered so much ground there, right? To check in with them as a person, to talk about wins, things that are going well, talk about challenges, talk about what’s not going well, whether that’s, stop, start, continue, five, five, five, or just What do you hate about your job recently? That’s all it takes.

There’s also some accountability. You’re working on X project, how it’s going. You said you have this done by today. Is it done right? Like super valuable. You might want to touch based on education, right? You might want to get some feedback about like, how am I [00:22:00] doing for you as a leader? What can I be doing more of to support you?

All of those kinds of questions I think are really valuable. And here’s the thing, Ben and I right now are rattling off all these things that could go in your agenda, but what our real recommendation is. Pick some and put them on a document that you look at every time you have this meeting.

There should be a set agenda. You can change it from time to time and I’m not asking you to etch it in stone, right? But ultimately you want the meeting to be predictable for you and the other person. You want the structure of the meeting to be predictable so they know it to come. Prepared with they know what you’re asking of them and it’s clear what you’re offering to them.

It’s clear. This meeting is about us getting aligned on these five areas you personally what’s going well, what’s not going Are you doing the shit you said you’re gonna do are you learning and growing? How can I be a better leader? I just listed the five things that would be on my agenda, right?

That’s pretty much what yours were too bad, right? It’s not rocket science and those are the five things in 30 minutes You can totally touch base on each one of those only takes maybe a [00:23:00] five minute conversation, and let me say this. What do maybe this is a whole nother podcast, but I’ll just see if you have a quick answer to it.

Sometimes in one on one meetings, it’s hard to be consistent because some team members want to come in and vent. Or dump on you, or, so how do you handle it when a team member comes into a one on one and kind of hijacks it for one reason or another, any suggestions for when that happens?

I hear this a lot. Yeah, that’s a great question. The first thing that comes to mind is. Maybe just go Hey, can I interrupt you? It sounds like you’ve things you’ve got some things you want to get off your chest. It’s still really important that we have our structured meeting. So if we need to talk about some other stuff, can we take a second now and just get that other meeting rescheduled?

Or are you okay to go a little bit late provided that you are, but I want to take like a loving moment to just remind them that like we’re doing this for a certain expectation. I get that sometimes we’re going to get curve balls. But we’re not skipping the meeting because if we do this once a month, that’s 8 percent of our meetings.

If we skip one, we, [00:24:00] this is still non negotiable and I’m still here to serve you. I love that response. I knew you’d have a great quick one. Exactly. Hey Ben, can I interrupt for a second? What you’re saying really matters to me. Clearly we should talk about this cause you’ve got some stuff we should unpack.

This meeting has a specific agenda. So if this is really time sensitive, we can do have this conversation now, but let’s, before we do that reschedule this meeting, right? Like I love that. Yes, I want to help you with this. Do you want to do this first? Great. Let’s do that now. But then we need to have this meeting also, because this meeting has a specific purpose.

I think that’s so smart because you want them to know that they can bring it to you and you’re there to help problem solve, but they can’t always hijack the meeting that has an agenda. It has an agenda for a reason. If they need more time to talk about something else, let’s make it right. But it can’t be at the expense of the ongoing operation.

So I love that response. Thank you. The last thing I don’t think we covered yet, which is. cadence for one on one meetings. I’ll just share my quick opinion, which is, I think when a new employee starts, they should [00:25:00] have weekly one on one minimum. I’m sure people are spending other time onboarding them, but one on one should be weekly for new people.

Over time, most of you listening to this who have a team can probably live at bi weekly one on one meetings. And some of you who have very part time staff or seasonal staff might be okay with monthly meetings. That are one on ones. I wouldn’t go any longer than that. And I think almost all of you should consider biweekly as like the home base.

And I’d also say that weekly meetings are good for new people. They’re also good for people who having performance issues. So I will, double down and have more regular one on ones with people who have things that we need to work on and your reward for getting better at those is that we don’t have to meet as regularly, right?

And you’re really struggling with something great. Let’s meet every week. We’re going to talk about it more often. And once you get better at it, cool, your reward is I’ll see you every other week now, right? Not that meetings are punishments, right? But the idea here is that some people need to be brought under your wing when they’re going through a period of growth, change, [00:26:00] challenge.

Anything you would add to that or disagree with I strongly agree with all of it. The only thing I would add is what’s worked really well for us cause we were doing monthly meetings with the trainers. And as they were needing more stuff, we just had the conversation of. Sounds like we could probably meet a little bit sooner.

Do you want to try bi weekly for a little bit? It can be a collaborative effort, but I probably, let me take that back. I absolutely would not go more than a month without a one on one, but in that bi weekly to monthly seems to work, but you don’t have to be the only person who decides that. Let them be part of the process.

Well said. All right. We’re out of time, my friend. In fact, we’re past what we tried to do, but we always have a lot to say on topics of meetings. They’re really important. I’m glad we covered all the ground we do. Do you want to maybe just do a quick little 30 second recap of what you think we covered that was most important?

Yes. Meeting number one, mission control meeting, possibly just you or you and your leadership team roughly an hour every single week. Meeting number two, [00:27:00] whole team meeting, which would be trainers, admins, everybody, different agenda, probably still once a week, maybe bi weekly because that’s working really well for MFF with a different agenda where it’s more client focused.

Third type of meeting is one on ones, which will be weekly as someone’s being onboarded or if they’re having performance issues, then doing bi weekly or monthly based on what works best for your organization. Bravo. You crushed it. Great summary. Listeners, if you love this podcast, please let us know, share it with all your friends, share with all your fitness friends and leave us a five star review everywhere you listen to podcasts.

And we want to hear from you. So sound off in the comments on social media, email us, let us know what you want us to talk about my emails. Michael at businessunicorns. com. Thanks for a great conversation, Ben. It was a good one. And this is a good one for people to, to bookmark because means there’s something you’re always going to be working on.

So bookmark this podcast. It’s a great one. Have a good one, Ben. I’ll see you on the next one. Thank you. You too.