Episode 261

Programming Tips from Cressey Sports Performance Co-Owner, John O Neil

In this episode, Cressey Sports Performance co-owner, John O Neil, joins me to talk about programming tips.

[00:00:00] Hello, fitness business nerds. What’s up? Welcome to another episode of The Business of Unicorns podcast, and today I’m so frigging stoked to have the man, the myth, the legend on the podcast, John O’Neill, who is the co-owner and director of Performance at Cresty Sports Performance. You’ve heard his nameless podcast many times, probably from mine and Pete’s mouth.

And now we get to actually have the man here himself to speak for himself. So welcome to the podcast, John. So glad to have you. Michael, thanks for having me. You’re building me up a little bit too much. I’m just a regular guy that’s looking to help some people out here today. You know what? That’s the kind of humility I assumed you would lead with.

So I needed to balance that out with really hyping you up. Yeah. Here’s the thing is that, I think I’ve heard your name a million times from Pete. We got to meet a little bit when you came to our Business Unicorns podcast in Boston. And and anyone who. Pete speaks so highly of, I knew was gonna be a rock star when I met you, and then you came to our retreat and really wowed our audience and our our unicorn study members with your talk.

And everything I hear about you is that you’re just totally crushing it every day at C S P. And it went from [00:01:00] being an employee to now being a co-owner of the business, which is a path that not many people take. So clearly you’re doing a lot right, my friend. So just thanks again for taking the time to have this conversation today.

Oh, Michael, I appreciate it. I’m happy to, answer any questions you have. I know you mentioned talking a little bit about the path, going from employee to owner and yeah. We can definitely dive into that. Yeah, for sure. Let’s start with first things first. Do you just wanna tell the people like what your what you started at Cressey doing, what your current job is, and we’ll take it from there?

Yeah, absolutely. So I interned at C S P Florida, actually the first intern class at the Florida location almost 10 years ago. It’s actually nine years ago right now. In 2014, I got hired full-time in 2017 as a coach up here. And really from the beginning my goal was not necessarily just to show up and coach for a year and then head out and try to find the next step.

It was I really enjoyed the model here and I enjoyed coaching here. And I knew like, all right, I gotta figure out a way to make this. Not just a stopgap job, I gotta figure out a way to make this a career. And while [00:02:00] owner was not necessarily like the goal day one, week one definitely becoming a leader internally in the facility was and whether it’s leading the staff, the interns being the main voice for the athletes, whatever it is that was a goal of mine very early on here and.

I guess four or five years of doing that, I’m about six years in now. I guess the year five mark transitioning into an ownership role and in all. I guess the question I get asked the most in that front is oh, how has your job changed? How has this changed? And really the only change is I am a little more mindful of the, not just the gross revenue figure, right?

Yep. You’re a lot more lot more in tune with, net profit and other factors and expenses that go in. And so being involved in those conversations has really been the only. Main change in the last year or so. But my actual day-to-day job has not changed that much throughout the, let’s call it six years, the actual responsibility may have, but like showing up, coaching, programming, working with athletes, working with the staff, working with [00:03:00] interns.

All that stuff is very similar to what it was, five years ago. Yeah. Fantastic. I think that’s a great overview. Yeah. Thank you for that. Let’s dive in ’cause you’re right. I think the first thing I would love to talk about is the path you took from being employee to now being a co-owner.

Excuse me. And, and I think this is a story that We actually don’t often hear of in the gym space. It’s maybe, and even in any business, it’s a rare path to take. And you already started laying the groundwork for how you did it. And it was started with a mindset of I wanna make this a damn career.

I’m not interested in just a job for a year or two. I want to really double down, so I’m gonna focus on becoming a leader, a voice of the clients. And so just walk me through what those initial. Kind of light bulb moments were for you that started that path to you becoming an owner.

Sure. That makes sense. So I don’t know if there was one or two initial light bulbs. I’m very grateful for the background I’ve had in terms of it being a little bit all over the map. So I was a math major in college. I interned professional baseball on the front office side. From the time I was, [00:04:00] 12 years old, I wanted to be general manager of a M L B team.

I still do. I just don’t want to take the steps that it takes to get there. But in all reality, my job now is as close to that as you can get in the private sector. At least I feel like it is. So this is not necessarily like a one year oh, this is what I’m gonna do over the next year.

It’s just the mindset of had for, Just in terms of diverse background, like I was an editor in my college newspaper, so I have some writing skills. Get the math side. The training route was more so just like, all right, this seems like a fun job. Let me see if I can make it into a career. And did that, after college is really grateful.

I had two great internships, one at ran phones in Connecticut which they exposed me to a lot of different things. Obviously the Cressey one, which I mentioned and then worked in the field at both annex sports performance in New Jersey and drive 4 95 in New York City. So by the time I got hired as a coach at C S P, I was not coming into it with oh, my background is, I learned the Cressey system for three months and then I got hired.

I felt like I had a lot of different. A lot of different [00:05:00] skill sets and a lot of there a more diverse background than your maybe your average hire. Those three years in between interning, getting hired in all reality I’m competitive, and I spent those three years thinking like, all right.

How did I, I wanted to get hired outta my internship, why didn’t I? And so I spent and it wasn’t like a, I didn’t do a good job there. It was more like a timing, like a lot of different hires. I’m sure you guys have talked a lot about this, but it’s timing and Yes. And who, what’s available and is it the right fit at that time.

And so I spent those three years trying to learn as much as I can all over the map. So whether it’s, on the sports performance side, on the fitness business side, on the general training, general population work, training for strength, speed, power, mobility, whatever it was.

And so I felt like by the time I came into work here that I could step into a more veteran role, even though it was my first year here. Sure. We had some like staff transition at that time, which I’m sure Pete has talked a lot about on previous episodes. Yes. But I was looking at it as like, all right, I can step in and not be like entry level higher for the [00:06:00] next one to two years.

I can step in and, within my first year here really, validate the work I’ve put in. Over the previous three, four years to step in and really not only, use the stuff I’ve learned with athletes, but teach staff members, teach interns and.

The stuff on that end. And none of that was done as a this is my route to ownership. It was more like, this is my route towards making myself invaluable but also putting out the best product. I know a lot of coaches there is a, and this is human nature, but I. There is a desire to make things transactional.

I did this, give me this. And in all reality, like I, I started working with the interns in depth at the time when I did because I looked at our setup and our, the flow of our gym and we’re 15,000 square feet and we might have 30 athletes training at a time, and I can’t coach 30 athletes at time, but if I coach the interns how to coach the athletes better, I’m all of a sudden affecting a lot more people positively.

So I just grabbed the internship program. Unprompted as like, all right, hey, [00:07:00] I’m gonna get the interns up to speed on the way I want things run. And that became something that, led into this title of director performance originally. And it was not intended to, originally it was, mainly for the sake of, Hey, I’m gonna put out a better product if the coaches around me know what they’re doing more, or know.

The way I want things done a little better. And so that, couple years, I guess three, four, I guess four years as the director of performance only, I guess I still have that title. But and then it transitioned to ownership role and around 20, so I got hired in 2017, I guess around 2020 2019. 2020 around the time when Eric got hired.

In the Yankees role that he’s still currently in. It was like, all right I’m doing well. I’m the director here. What is the next step? Is the next step for me pro ball as well is the next step, running my own space, which I had have seen so many examples of in the field, and I knew that wasn’t.

Necessarily like the way I wanted to go. At least not at that age. And I was like, all right, I’m essentially running this facility now with Eric [00:08:00] Eric in Florida a lot of the year, Eric, with his Yankees commitments when he’s in the Northeast. Pete on the business side, like I’m overseeing the whole training side and having pretty candid conversations with mainly Pete, but also Eric.

About hey, like this is, if I’m gonna be here long, long term, like what is the next, what’s the next step for me? Is there potential to to get ownership stake here? Is there potential to keep my current role and just continue to make more and more money? And owner ownership stake became the became the obvious route that we should all take.

And I say we should all as a standpoint of Pete and Eric, like having somebody on the floor invested on that side I think for, hopefully for them has been invaluable. But that’s the, I guess that’s the three to five minute version of that answer. But hopefully I was able to answer your question a little bit.

Yeah, no, I really appreciate you going down memory lane and sharing all the details from each step of the journey. So it sounds like if I was gonna highlight the things that you did really well that our listeners could learn from, one is that you really took initiative to both. Gather the skillset and like the mindset you needed to [00:09:00] keep pushing your career forward.

That you really were the one driving that. The second thing is that it sounds like you really thought to give value first. I love the way you said that, I didn’t approach it from a transactional nature. I really thought about how can I just develop the best product possible, do the best service possible.

And make myself indispensable at this business. And I think that’s a huge mindset that is, is hard. ’cause there’s some people who do need in because of the, their lifestyle their personal situation. They do need a kind of a tit for tat if I’m gonna work harder and make, I need to make more money.

But it seems like you’re in a place to say, you know what? I don’t need to push for that yet. I can just add value for now and maybe the money will come and it has, I hope. And, and then the third thing is it sounds like you are really willing to ask for what you want.

That once you’ve been in the job director for a while, you’re really just say, okay, what about equity? What about ownership? Can we talk about it? Those are those are kinda my highlights. Anything you would add to that as lessons took away? Yeah, no, that, that makes perfect sense.

A lot of it’s based off perspective, right? Like I listened to Mike [00:10:00] Boyle and your podcast re mean, Mike’s been doing it for 40 years and Know I have a tough time, and maybe this is music to the owners that are listening. I have a tough time like grasping the mindset of a coach. That’s a year in and it’s in now.

Like the way I I grew up and my mom’s been teaching for 53, 54 years at this point. And still doing pretty much the same job. My dad was in the workforce for 50 years, just retired a couple years ago, 50 plus years. And I never really looked at it as like, all right, here’s my calendar date at the one year mark.

I better be getting this at the two year market. Better be getting this. It was more so how do you earn your way into doing that? And I still do. It’s cool being on podcasts like this. Being I mentioned the name Mike Boyle, but the, all the other guys you that you’ve had on the other people that you’ve had on are very accomplished in the field.

But I think part of the reason they are very accomplished, and I can’t speak for them, is they’re not looking at it as like, all right, cool. I’ve made it, I’ve made it. This isn’t it’s not an athletic career where you have your career, then you retire at 32. Yeah.

And so it’s very much like I go to work every [00:11:00] day, like today’s a Monday. I’m trying figure out. What I can get the most out of today, how this sets up the rest of the week how this sets up the month and then eventually like the next season. We’re very seasonal here, so yeah. Right now we’re working on setting up our fall to make sure that high school kids come back, high school kids come back in either, equal or greater than numbers to previous years.

But it is very much like a long-term angle in your mind. And part of having a long-term angle in your mind is like actually showing up and doing the best you can in, in micro moments, right?

It’s cool that, to be recognized and have it work out like that, but in all reality, like my job is more stressful now than it was five years ago. Five years ago is easy show, show up and coach, yeah, of course. I think it’s that long-term mindset that it really has made you a really right fit for an owner.

Position, because that’s the mindset of owners, right? Owners are playing the long game, right? We’re not in it for the paycheck. We’re in it for the long-term value we’re creating in the business. [00:12:00] And the fact that you had that mindset pays off. And here’s the thing is, I wanna make sure our listeners hear this too, is that not all long-term plays like that.

Will pay off. You, this is a success story. Not all of them are. You could have the long-term view and not get that promotion, not get the, the owner status. But you did. Lemme do this. Before we switch gears, I wanna just ask one more question on this topic, which is for all of the owners listening right now who are always trying to find ways to.

Engage their staff and create a sense of ownership amongst their team to create employees like you who wanna make themselves invaluable and build careers. What, what are the things that you know that Pete and Eric did knowingly or unknowingly that made it possible for you to have this past?

So what, really what I’m asking is what advice do you have for the owners listening if they want to create employees that take a path like you did? Sure that makes sense. And some of these are conscious and some are not. Yes. And so I think I think a lot of it was [00:13:00] essentially like, all right, here are things that maybe Pete and Eric aren’t doing whether they’re purposely not doing it or they are.

Unaware. And when somebody starts doing it, not claiming it and being like, oh, now I have to take it. And even just the model, the way we’re set up here is, we, it’s individualized programming and that the worst part about the individualized program model is somebody’s gotta write the programs which is gonna take time.

But the, just the nature of the size, the scope, the scale of our business Eric can’t write all the programs, so even just. Having somebody else write the, write a lot of them or write for this population or this population. And just getting out of the way and guiding, I think is very valuable.

I think a lot of times just talking to friends of mine in the field and people I know in the field, it’s the the owners who prevent their employees from having the chance to do stuff like this Yes. Are the ones that are mic micromanaging the little things, right? Yes. And it’s almost like I, I use the baseball gym analogy, but the.

The GM of the team doesn’t care what the AA team, what hotel, the AA team’s staying in, right? Like the somebody else is worrying about that. There’s [00:14:00] people have lanes and stuff that they manage and the owner’s job is more so to set boundaries or. Our guidelines, like the term that sticks in my head is the idea of like autonomy within bounds.

And you might be able to tell me where that quote’s from. I don’t know, I can’t remember where I read that. I dunno, that’s a specific combination, but it sounds a little bit like self-determination, theory oriented, but yeah. Yeah. It’s kinda Hey, here’s the general style of how we do things. The level of professionalism we have the way we, what we value in programming, but then the actual the small choices.

Hey, you go make those yourself. And I think, yeah. I look at the, both the interns and the staff members that have come through here, several of which are working, whether it’s professional sports, college sports, running their own facility. Or doing something more entrepreneurial.

From day one of the internship, they’re given some autonomy within what they do. It’s Hey, this is what you’re supposed to do here. Here are the guardrails. And the guardrails start really small and close to each other when you’re new. And they expand over time. If you do really well within your guardrails grow, [00:15:00] sure.

And if something is going wrong within there, then that becomes a conversation. But for the most part, I think our model. Tends to help create good or help create productive coaches because you have some freedom of what you’re doing within within the bounds we’re talking about.

Yeah, I think it’s a great way of looking at it. I think it’s great advice for our listeners who are owners is right. You need to give people a little room to grow, right? A little autonomy for them to fill in the gaps as they see them to. And I think a big part of this for owners, I’ll add this part, which is for owners to be able to give you as an employee space to grow, they need to let go of some shit.

They need to delegate, let other people take some things on. And and sometimes that’s hard for owners, especially the ones who’ve been doing it themselves for a really long time. Those single owner operators to let go of a single task might really be a Herculean task, and so the fact that you were, were able, and that Eric and Pete, for the most part, were willing to let you take things on and get things off their plates and you are happy to do is a really great example of what that can look like when it goes well. [00:16:00] Yeah, and I’ve talked about this before, but I think it’s a really valuable thing to do for whether it’s you’re an employee or an owner.

You literally write down, keep a, the list of here’s everything, it’s standard operating procedures, right? It’s write down a list of everything that happens in the facility. Who from, who takes the trash out to who pays the bills right from, that’s from a bottom top approach.

And if there’s stuff in there that someone else can do just as good a job at it. Yeah. Have them do it, because to them that becomes important, right? So the example here for us now is I don’t do a whole lot of 13 to 16 year old evals anymore. Which sounds funny, but because that’s a high percentage of our business, but the evaluation for those kids is not super complex.

Like the complex thing is actually getting them to show up. Three plus times a week. And having them make sure they, they sleep eight hours and eat breakfast. I’ll take on the, most of the evals I do are, college pro adults, people that, hey, maybe the eval’s a little more nuanced.

But all reality, like our. The new hires get the 13, 14, 15 year olds. Yeah. It’s [00:17:00] not to say they’re less important. They’re a higher percentage of our business than any of those other populations I talked about. But the evaluation itself is not the complex part there.

Yeah. And so well said. That is something that is in our model. It’s very easy to pass off. Yeah, said. I think those are great examples of ways that owners can make space for people to take things on that grow their responsibility, grow their skillset, grow their experience, which is fantastic.

Let’s just pivot a little bit. I wanna spend just a few minutes. I know we’re gonna go over time a little bit. Are you okay on time? I. Yeah. All good. Yep. I just wanna spend maybe another, maybe just five quick minutes talking a little bit about programming at CS p. Sure. Because I, I think my listeners would kill me if I didn’t talk about programing a little bit with the director of performance at C S P, so and can you just maybe in the briefest way possible explain like what your approach is to programming at CS P.

’cause then what I really wanna talk a little bit about is any tips you have for listeners for saving time on programming, because I know it’s one of the biggest complaints we have. But first, just maybe explain how you do things. From a program programming perspective. Yeah. And so [00:18:00] obviously, we talked said five minutes.

I think I combine those answers. And so people hear individualized model and they think oh my God, like everybody’s this, like special, whatever you wanna say. Every, everyone’s like this special snowflake. Exactly. Snowflake’s a good word. Yeah. Where it’s like, all right, you start from scratch every time.

And. The reality is like you’re never starting from scratch, right? If you’re starting from scratch, that means like all of the education that you did, everything you read, everything you look into program wise just went to waste. ’cause each person, you gotta restart that, right? Yeah, exactly. The big thing is to me I got this actually from Charlie Wein, grf, this exact term, which I think I got from Mike Rone through Charlie Wein grf.

So I’ll just to give credit where it’s due. But this idea of starting at the finish, so when people come to you and say like, all right, this is what I, this is what I want do, this is my goal, et cetera. Try to get as much clarity of what they want as possible. Sometimes, kids are the worst ones in terms of they don’t necessarily know.

Sure. Like, all right, they’re coming to you for this sport. Here’s. Here are the key competencies that make someone good at this sport. For us it’s a lot of baseball. We see some [00:19:00] football, basketball, lacrosse as well. Just to name a few and some others. But start at the finish and backtrack from there.

Whatever they need to do in their sport. If you have one month with them and it’s, you only have two days a week what your training should look similar to what they need to do in their sport. If you have six months and four days a week with them, you have some time to.

Maybe undo or redo some stuff. And so it’s always just starting to finish looking at this idea of what is the gold standard in their sport? And if you need to be, this size or have this speed, you have to retrace it towards that, right? Yes. Or throw this hard or run this fast.

Can I interject? Just a quick question, John. So if you say that, you’re not starting from scratch with each individualized program, which makes perfect sense. Sure. Does that mean you’re using templates and if so, can you just describe a little bit about how you think about templatizing some of your programs?

Yeah. Yeah. So the biggest variable is frequency, right? So you’re your two day, your 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, whatever, however many days a week you’re seeing people and our model’s awesome. And I can say it that way ’cause I didn’t create it. But our model’s awesome in that like [00:20:00] we see more than 50% of the people we see train.

Training our unlimited package, which is three or more days a week, right? It’s actually pushes 75% in parts of the year. And so those are people 3, 4, 5 days a week. And so you see those people all the time. And so you don’t like, if you don’t have to overthink every little slot in the program because you know you’re gonna see them all the time.

When you have somebody one or two days a week, the pro I think the program in a weird way becomes more complex. ’cause you better make sure you nail that one day a week to get that person to wanna come back. And If you’re seeing someone one or two days a week, the goal for me is usually how do I figure out a way to increase their frequency?

When I’m seeing someone 3, 4, 5 days a week, the goal is like, all right, what are the things that they can see tangible progress on that make them want to keep coming back, that make them say, Hey, I got this happened. I’m hitting the ball harder than I ever have. Off of that program.

And here’s maybe why that happened, or here’s things that went well that, that correlated to that. But yeah, everything starts with frequency and then it’s demographic from there. Let’s say I’ll use the three day a week, [00:21:00] and so maybe it’s all full body, maybe it’s one full, one upper, one lower.

That doesn’t really matter too much. The delineation of that one is more so are they training back to back days or not? But whatever version of that you choose you, you have to pick a demographic where it makes sense. So your 13 year old three days a week and your 19 year old three days a week should look a little bit different, right?

Sure. And then from there, like the exercise categories don’t change that much. And we deal with a lot of athletes, right? So everybody’s gonna have some kind of sprinting, right? If it’s a field sport athlete who, maybe it’s a midfielder in lacrosse, they’re probably gonna have more sprinting than a catcher in baseball.

Right just to give or a pitcher in baseball to take it more extreme. And so the amounts of stuff might change, but the stuff itself doesn’t change that much. And what I mean by that is like, all right, your 19 year old might be doing a ss s b reverse launch and your 15 year old’s doing a dumbbell goblet reverse launch, right?

And so just knowing here are the levels of exercises, here’s the amounts that are appropriate. Based off demographic, based off training age, there’s a number of factors you could [00:22:00] use to individualize, but like frequency, demographic, training, age, and then like timeline, like how much time you actually have with them.

Those are the big rocks. I think I. I love talking programming. I’m sure You sure? You could tell like the, keep it under five minutes. It’s gonna be hard. But the the reality is like the, I think it’s a lot, I think it’s almost overvalued in a way. Because sometimes the people who are so concerned with programming are missing the boat that, hey, just establish training frequency and motivation.

Like we see people, if we see someone four days a week, we’re seeing them, what, five to six hours. We were running like 75 to 90 minute sessions. Six hours in a week out of, what’s the math here? 1 150 plus, I think it’s 1 68. Yep. That, that’s in my head. I think it’s 1 68. There’s a lot of time that you want training to be enjoyable enough and them to be into enough that it’s influencing everything else.

That’s where that’s where the magic happens in terms of like, all right, this person really liked training so much that they went and slept eight hours. That they [00:23:00] had good, made good nutritional choices. And all of a sudden snowballs. ’cause they start seeing better training results. But sometimes it starts with them liking the training.

That’s like this idea of having, like this keystone or foundational habit for a lot of people it is training and everything else snowballs off of that. So whatever your programming is, yeah, whatever your programming is, it should be motivating people to do. The rest of things that are gonna impact training outside of training to do those.

That makes sense. Lemme one last question on programming, because I think you’ve spelled out a lot, I think a lot of best practices for our listeners, which is super helpful. And I love the way you organized and think about organizing your templates. I think a lot of our listeners struggle to find the right approach to that.

Yeah. One of the things that we. One of the ways we think about programming at M F is that programming has to happen in the feedback loop with the clients, right? Yeah. That we make our best effort by, based on their assessments and what we learned about them to put out the best programming, but that at some point we need to be listening to them, getting feedback for them about what’s motivating, what’s not, what they like, what they don’t like, what’s hard, what’s, and clearly with so many people on the floor at the [00:24:00] time, you can’t be the one who’s hearing firsthand that feedback for every client.

So how do you get the information you need about. The client’s experience to keep the programs good if not improving. So how do you get the feedback from the clients at C S P? Sure. That’s a good question. So we see between three and 400 different people within a calendar year.

It’s not at one time, it’s, we get a lot of people who are here for three months, six months in some scenarios, et cetera. Just ’cause of the seasonal nature of sports. But I try to have some relationship with all of them and now some relationship might be as little as I say hi and bye to them and we talk for a minute and just given our schedules or whatnot.

Maybe they’re once a week in a day where I’m like not on the floor as much. Maybe they’re, maybe I talk to them an hour, three days a week. I it’s hard to quantify what’s what that means. But the, I, in all reality, the hardest ones, like you said, are the ones who I barely see.

And those are ones who one of two things happen. So I either pass that program off to another staff member who sees them more frequently. And [00:25:00] it’s Hey, have you been talking to, I’ll use your name just so I don’t pick on random athlete, but have you been talking to, Michael Keeler recently?

I haven’t seen him train in a couple weeks. All right, cool. Maybe you’re a better fit to write that program then. Sure. That’s the one the second one, because sometimes clients don’t like when their programs get passed around. That’s a real, that’s a real thing. And I don’t blame them.

There, there’s some comfort in consistency in knowing like, all right, this is who writes them and whatnot. That’s someone who I’ll just ask people, Hey, what, how did they look on X exercise? How did they look on this? It’s not the best way to do it. I’d rather, oh, reality, I’d rather pass that program off to someone who is seeing them.

But hey, what do they really like? What do they really hate? Those are all like, good questions. And the conversation might only be like a minute, and it might be, it might be with one of our interns who is like, who is, who winds up talking to ’em a lot. Hey what’d they really like in training?

How are they doing on this? What they dislike and the whole dislike thing. I think in the sports performance world, there is like this desire to make things like [00:26:00] so scientific and so this is the perfect progression with all reality. If you pick things that people like, as long as it’s like within bounds, like they’re gonna train harder at it.

So if you can, if you have your perfect exercise and you can come one step removed from it, or just one lateral move from it to something they really are into. Cool, let’s do that. That’s gonna get them to train harder, train more frequently, et cetera. But yeah, to answer your question, it’s either the program gets passed off or I talk, or I try to talk to somebody on staff.

But I would say of the a hundred to 150 people I program for a year, and I don’t know that exact number but let’s say it’s one 50, right? I don’t know. Totally sure. I have pretty good conversations and good relationship with a hundred plus of them, like probably three out of every four that I program for.

I know pretty well, I know well enough to. To know what, what their ticks are, what they like, what they dislike, how things are going. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, I really appreciate you illuminating that because I think it’s a big part of the equation and as the business scales and grows to the size of C S P and bigger, in some cases, I.

Excuse me, that it’s, [00:27:00] gets a harder and harder thing to do, especially if you continue down the individualized program route, which I know you all are committed to. So thank you for sharing. I think those are really great tips, great ideas. I’m gonna pull up there. I think we can keep talking on these topics for at least another 10 hours, but you really shared so much value already.

So thank you again so much for your time. John for our listeners who wanna find more about you and follow you online or more about C S P, where can they find you on the interwebs? Yeah. Absolutely. Michael, I appreciate you having me and hopefully people got something out of this. My Instagram and Twitter are at O’Neill Strength.

I isn’t, it’s not called Twitter anymore, is it? It’s X Instagram and my X Yeah, for now, I don’t know, it’s the stupidest thing, but go ahead. Those are at O’Neill Strength. I also technically oversee the, at CSP Mass. That’s csp, M A s Instagram I’m not the best on social media. I definitely wouldn’t, like if you’re, if your continuing education is from my Instagram, it’s pretty limited, put it that way.

You could definitely people could definitely reach me from there. Great. I enjoy talking shop with people and answering [00:28:00] questions that people have, but Awesome. But yeah, so the, those are those, that’s the best way to find me. That’s awesome.

So listen, if you have any questions from today’s episode, you wanna direct to John, go find him on the social media and, follow C s P Mass because there is great content there and you can see what it looks like to do all the things he just talked about every day. Thanks so much John. I really hope you have a great rest of your day.

And dear listeners, if you love this podcast, leave us a five star review everywhere where you listen. Have a good one and I’ll see you on the next one. Thanks, Michael.