Avoid These 3 Pitfalls in Your Sales Process with Ben Pickard

Speaker: [00:00:00] 1, 2, 3, 4. Welcome to The Business for Unicorns podcast, where we help gym and studio owners create a business and a life they love. I’m your host, Michael Keeler. Join me and the business unicorns team each week for actionable advice, expert insights, and the inside scoop on what it really takes to level up your gym.

Get ready to unlock your potential and become a real unicorn in the fitness industry.[00:00:30]

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Hello, fitness Business Nerds. What’s up? Welcome to another episode of the Business Phoenix Unicorns podcast. I’m back with my man, Ben. What’s up sir?

Speaker 2: Hello. How are you doing, Michael?

Speaker: I’m good. We’re recording this, uh, beginning of March and in New York City. Let me be honest, it feels like early spring, like it’s, I think it’s fooling us.

Like I think we’re gonna be in for rude awakening and get some more cold, but it is wild how warm it’s been the last few days is same for you.

Speaker 2: Yes. I’m a little bit [00:02:00] concerned of being lured into a false sense of security about the weather.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker 2: But I didn’t wear a jacket today. And it was a highlight.

Yes.

Speaker: I put on shorts yesterday outside. It was like impress, it was like 60 something, but I was like, I’m going for it just because my knees need to breathe. And I don’t regret it. I don’t regret it. I’m going to, I’m going to, after we record this, I’m gonna go, I’ll meet some friends for dinner. I think we’re sitting outside.

Like it’s that warm today when I’m recording this.

Speaker 2: I was, I was joking with Kaia that again, the Celsius, Fahrenheit, I can’t conversion, I can’t do in my [00:02:30] head, but when it’s the middle of summer and it starts to become fall, you’re like, oh my God, it’s two degrees cooler. I need a sweater. But when you’re coming out of winter and you’re going into spring, you’re like.

Oh my God. It’s one degree above freezing. I don’t need a jacket.

Speaker: 100%. I was joking earlier with people like it was only like 50 something degrees the last few days in New York City, but you would’ve thought it was the middle of summer. People were just like tank tops, like sitting outside. I was just like, it was, people were just so excited.

People just be outside and not wear a [00:03:00] piles of clothes yet. Anyway, it’s that time of year. I’m excited. I hope it continues. I’m ready to plant some. Gar some vegetables and herbs in my garden and get this spring started.

Speaker 2: Same here. We had rabbits ate some of our trees. I’m very unhappy with these probably adorable little rabbits, so I need to replace some

Speaker: little jerks though.

Little jerks,

Speaker 2: shrugs and shit that I’m not a big gardener guy. I just want it to look nice.

Speaker: Yeah, same. I’m like, not a big gardener, but between like little rabbits and deer, they’ll fuck your stuff up every single time. [00:03:30] Anyway, let’s switch gears. Today we’re talking about something totally unrelated to gardening or springtime, which is sales.

Sales. I know we have our Unicorn Society retreat coming up in April, which is in Atlanta, which I’m sure you’ve. Let’s do this podcast at all. We’ve been talking to you about it ad nauseum probably, and Ben’s been preparing his presentation for that retreat and he’s talking about sales and I thought there was some, we both thought there was some really good content in there we could share with all of you today.

So what we’re gonna cover today are three. Three kind of [00:04:00] roadblocks, three pitfalls when it comes to sales conversations that we think are. Three of the most common things people get wrong in sales or approaches we think are wrong, and we also wanna give you their solutions. Maybe just frame up, Ben, before we even dive into the three buckets, can you just talk a little bit about where sales conversations fit in to most of the gym’s marketing funnels that we talked to?

So just give people a context for, we talk about sales conversations, this is what we mean.

Speaker 2: Yeah, like generally speaking, [00:04:30] people would raise their hand and say, I’m interested in learning more about what you do. IE, you’d get a lead. Typically, you would have some sort of probably like what we’d call a discovery call after that to make sure they’re a good fit.

Some people would sell from the website, like to sell an LBO, but we’re assuming there’d be some sort of touch point before actually having a sit down consultation. This would be like the sit down consultation part of the thing where at the end of that conversation they’re saying yes to probably buying an LBO, possibly a membership, or deciding that your gym is not for you.[00:05:00]

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker 2: There’s obviously little steps that happen to make those steps happen, but it’d be lead call sales conversation.

Speaker: Yeah. Great. So yeah, for today’s purs purpose, we’re really thinking about the sales conversations being the defining moment when they’re committing to something a little more long term, that they’ve probably tried you out a little bit already and now.

Hopefully they’re ready to commit to a season, three months, a year. And then that’s the sales conversation we’re talking about. So let’s just dive right in. What is the first bucket of things that people get wrong? What’s the first kind of pitfall? [00:05:30]

Speaker 2: They ramble. Michael Ramble.

Speaker: Think about that on this podcast.

Chew.

Speaker 2: So this one hits close to home. ’cause I have been, it’s not lost in me that I can be wordy on things. And I think it comes from a desire to not. Lemme put it this way. I don’t trust people who speak in absolutes. I think they’re fucking liars. If you speak in absolutes about almost anything, I think you’re lying about everything.

Yeah. I’m being a little bit facetious here, but if you’re like, this is the way it is and there’s no other way, I’m like, what planet do you live on? We’re still learning [00:06:00] shit about. Everything and theories are being debunked. There’s no way

Speaker: live a world of gray. What are you talking about? Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah. A hundred percent.

Just a black and white. So I think it comes from an overcorrection on my own desire to not come across as those who I do not trust. So I can be rambling. I’m rambling a little bit right now, but if you’re rambling through a sales conversation, you lose people. And sometimes this can show up with, you told me you’re interested in accomplishing A and B in your fitness, and I’m like, oh my God.

We’re the right fit [00:06:30] for you Because let me tell you about all the things we do and we go on this like it comes from a good place. ’cause it comes from passion and care, but it’s just a frigging word, vomit of all the shit you do. And Michael’s just like, so can I still get stronger? Even though my knee hurts, I don’t give a shit about your nutrition program.

I just wanna know that I can get stronger without my knee hurting. Yeah. So the solution to rambling is to have a roadmap. The idea is you are rambling because you don’t know where you are going.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Your script is [00:07:00] your map. Once you know where you were going, you’re always leading people to the next question.

If you’re following our sales script, like there’s a process for peeling the onion, your prospect is going to take you on wild tangents of adventure and irrelevance. Mm. But because you have the map, you’re like, Michael, that makes total sense. That actually leads me into my next question, which is getting them back on track.

If you don’t have that. Like it’s just a squiggly line where it needed to be like roughly going the right direction.

Speaker: Yeah. I think [00:07:30] the analogy, I think this said my friend, the analogy for me here is really for all you listeners who are trainers and care at all about program design, it’s a difference between someone going into a gym and just winging their workout and doing a little bit of these, a little bit of these, the next time they go into the gym, they do a little of this.

They’re not keeping track. There’s no real plan. Most of you would say that it’s hard for that to be a terribly effective workout. Is it better than doing nothing? Absolutely. But most of you would say, we could do better. We could do better. And so having a plan for your sales conversation is the same thing.[00:08:00]

It’s, it’s a program you’ve designed to make this the most effective conversation it can be. And you wanna move people from the first step to the second step to the third step. And we call this a script, but I wanna make sure that for those of you who have like a. Allergy to scripts. You, we size this for you and say, it does not have to be a word for word script.

We’re not trying to turn you into robots or ai, right? But it’s these talking points, right? And there’s clear sections to the conversation. There’s a clear purpose for each section of the conversation, and your [00:08:30] job is to move them from one purpose to the next so you can end the conversation with them committing to getting the help they asked for.

But I think I wanted to just say those things out loud, which is we’re saying script, but it can just be talking points. The point has Ben called it, there’s a path or a roadmap that you’re following and not having one. It’s just not a, not an answer, not a solution. It’s gonna lead to rambling. It’s also gonna lead to less conversions, right?

There’s a ton of research that shows that people have more organized, more well scripted research [00:09:00] roadmaps for their sales conversations. They get better conversions. They just get better results when you have a proven process to take people through. Yeah. Anything you would add about this first bucket?

Speaker 2: Yes. The thing that’s beautiful about this is the solution is all within your control as the salesperson.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker 2: It is up to you to create the roadmap. It is up to you to take the cr, take control of the conversation. If you, even if you do have a very tangential person in front of you, may test your skills a little bit.

[00:09:30] But like you have control of changing this outcome, so I implore you to act on it. Yeah. You’ve probably experienced both as a customer, the person who’s, holy shit, can I get to the sale already? And then the place where it’s like, Hey, do you sell car tires? And they’re like, yeah, do you have this tire? And they’re like, yeah.

Can you install it? They’re like, yeah. Can you do it right now? Yeah. Cool. Do you take credit card? Yep. Here you go. Yeah. Like that conversation. I needed a new tire the other day. That conversation couldn’t have actually gone better for you.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Them saying more [00:10:00] wasn’t actually a value add.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Good example.

I love that. That’s great. Alright, so we got obstacle number one in sales conversations. It’s just people rambling. And the solution to that is have a roadmap for the conversation. Have a script and know it well so you can actually guide the conversation and drive things forward.

Speaker 2: Drill that script.

Speaker: Great.

Speaker 2: Memorize it.

Speaker: What’s the second one? Second. Second. Road. Road. Road bump road. What am I saying? The second obstacle,

Speaker 2: the second problem you’re gonna experience [00:10:30] is overexplaining. And this is typically coming from an inability to perceive human feedback.

Speaker: Okay,

Speaker 2: so let’s give an example. Some people are really good at carrying a conversation, right?

You probably know some of them their life. Maybe you are that person in somebody else’s life where it’s just always engaging and it’s always interesting and it always goes well. And then you may also have some people in your life who are like, holy shit, was I talking to a brick wall? Do they even understand?

Do they care? [00:11:00] Do they know what empathy is? Their eyebrows didn’t even move. This one is partially in your controls. The sales person, partially in the responsibility of the prospect, except good luck trying to convince your, can’t be middle of a sales conversation. Be like, can I teach you about communication with other humans?

That’s not gonna work.

Speaker: Yeah. We get what we get. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah. You get what you get. Some people are brick walls, some people are overs shares.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker 2: You are still gonna have your skills tested here. The brick walls will be harder to read. And then the people [00:11:30] who are like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Or Can you tell me more about that?

Or, I have a question, but if you choose to take control of the salesperson of just making sure that your skills develop, I’ll give an example. I’m working with a sales coach right now to help me get better at sales without feeling like a sleazy car salesman and doing it in a way that aligns with my values.

But pushing the right people are the right fit to do the right things, what we believe to be the right things, and. I was missing all the head nodding. So when we were reviewing game tape together, he said, what did you see? And I’m like, this and [00:12:00] this. He’s, yeah, that’s not what I was talking about. He was nicer than that.

And he said, you see how they were nodding they were with you? And I’m like, didn’t even pick up on that.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker 2: So obviously you can’t ask like, Michael, I just said a spiel. Then I could be like, does that make sense? That’s like the lowest level of engagement. ’cause if you’re asking, does that make sense? 20 times in a conversation.

It’s a weird conversation. But you can do some things like what do you think about that thing? How do you feel about that? Do you see this aligning with your goals? Can you see yourself exercising here? [00:12:30] What type of, does that align with the schedule that you had in mind? You’re asking, not necessarily all open-ended questions, but you’re asking them questions to get their feedback, and the queue is, Hey, I’m talking to a version of a brick wall.

I have no idea what the fuck they’re saying, what they’re thinking. Instead of just. Repeating myself 14 times until I feel heard as the salesperson. I’m gonna pause and see what they got out of it to then see if I was hurt. Yeah, I know like it’s a little meta, but does that make sense?

Speaker: Yeah. 100% thing.

[00:13:00] Yeah, 100%. It’s tracking. It makes sense. Yeah. So I think it’s, you’re right, people overshare out of this kind of innate desire. Are you even hearing me? Is what I’m saying? Landing. So just keep talking and we say more just because we’re not sure if the person that we’re trying to talk to is actually receiving the message.

So I think getting small yeses from them over time. Or checking in with them and saying, okay, how do you feel about that? I think is a great way to pause and just get feedback from them that you need as the talker to say that, oh, we’re on the same page. We’re still together [00:13:30] here. I think that’s great and I honestly, I feel that one deeply.

I don’t know that I do that much in coaching or sales conversations. I feel that way a lot when speaking from stage. Like when I’m on a stage, yeah. I often ask y’all still with me, right? Even on Zoom, I ask, gimme a thumbs up if you’re still with me. I need to know as the person trying to convey information to people, are you getting this information right?

I even will ask sometimes. Does that make sense? Or in the chat box, repeat what I just said. I feel like I’m doing that all the time as like a presenter. And so I can imagine [00:14:00] in sales conversations if I felt like the person was just not hearing me either because they’re rambling and talking a lot, or they’re a brick wall, I’d feel the need to keep going to over overcompensate.

And that’s exactly, that’s not the solution

Speaker 2: because you don’t wanna leave them behind to get to the end of your presentation. And they’re like, I don’t know what the hell you just said. I have many questions, but at the same time, you don’t want to, you have a roadmap, you have a place where you want to go.

So there’s these kind of check-ins that come in. That will your bandaid solution to [00:14:30] really pick on picking up on the human connection and making sure they’re with you. And I think there’s a, in my experience, there is a level you can get to where you’re like, we’re on the same page energy wise. I know you’re with me.

Even though you might not be giving like overt signals about it.

Speaker: Yeah. Got it. So if I could, if I could recap the pitfall here is oversharing and talking way more than you need to and the solution is checking in with your folks. Checking with the person that you’re selling to and doing a little reality testing of like, where are they at?

Are they with you? [00:15:00] Are they coming along for this journey or not?

Speaker 2: Exactly, yes. And getting better and developing the skill of picking up on those cues. They might not say a lot of words, but if they’re making eye contact and they’re nodding with you the whole time, that might be the max level of get it.

That person’s willing to give you.

Speaker: Yeah. Great. I love that. Yeah, I think that’s really smart and it’s one of the reasons why I think doing these conversations in person really can be helpful. At the very least, over a video conference doing sales and stuff, just by phone is hard. ’cause you don’t get any of [00:15:30] those micro expressions on people’s faces.

You don’t see the head nodding. And so I think that it makes a big case for trying as much as possible to have these conversations where you can see each other.

Speaker 2: A hundred percent. Couldn’t agree more. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah. Alright, so we got two pitfalls. What’s the third?

Speaker 2: The third one’s a little more complex, sir. It is a loss of confidence or sometimes a never having confidence when it comes to sales, depending on where you’re at in your journey.

Speaker: Yeah,

Speaker 2: so there’s multiple [00:16:00] solutions to this. One. I’m even hesitant to say the word solution. It’s partially solved by having the first two. If you are good on, good at picking up human feedback and you’ve got a really clear roadmap that you have tested and practiced, and know that more often than not leads you to.

Where you want to get to, you’re gonna feel confident about your process. No different than using your presentation Example, like if you drill your presentation a few times, you’re not worried about going over time because you always finish five minutes early. But if it’s the first time you’ve done it in front of a hundred people, you [00:16:30] probably are rightly a little bit nervous.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 2: But then it can get a little more nuanced. And I’d love your opinion on this as well because we chatted about it a bit before. Some of this does just come from practice. You just gotta get your reps in.

Speaker: I think’s one, honestly, I think that’s like the North star for you. Un confidence. Just do it a ton of times.

So like nerves are not an issue. Not knowing what comes next is not an issue. You’ve done it so many times, you can do it in your sleep.

Speaker 2: Yes.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Some of it also comes from having the [00:17:00] appropriate packages and pricing for your membership base, knowing that you do actually have a solution for them. There’s probably a point where there wasn’t as many vegetarian people in the world and they walked into a restaurant and someone was like vegetarian.

The service that is now, it’s pretty normal where it’s marked on the.

Speaker 3: Yeah,

Speaker 2: so knowing that you do have the right things for your ideal client, meaning at the right price point, with the right frequency, with the right appropriate level of customizations. Again, I’m hoping most gyms have that somewhat sorted out, but there’s usually a little bit of tweaking that can happen as you Yeah.[00:17:30]

Mature.

Speaker: Yeah. Can I just jump in and say that even if you have. Your pricing and your services figured out, but you’re, you don’t feel like they’re right yet and you’re just, people can sense that, right? We talk all the time. Emotions are contagious. So even if you’re a little wishy-washy about your services and pricing, ’cause you just made them and you’re not sure if you’ve overpriced yourself or you’re constantly concerned, you’ve underpriced yourself or you wish your packages could include longer commitments, but you’ve just been afraid to ask people to commit to a year, right?

All of that, like [00:18:00] uncertainty, I think comes out in this conversation and people can tell that you’re like half-heartedly pitching them something that you haven’t yourself fully bought into yet. So that’s why I do think pricing and packaging matters. If you don’t have confidence in how you’ve priced and packaged your shit, it’s hard to have confidence in the full sales conversation.

Speaker 2: Yes. If you haven’t tested the stake at the restaurant as a server know, it’s absolutely amazing. You have a hard time giving a testimonial to the stake lovers right in front of you.

Speaker: A hundred percent. Yeah, a hundred percent. Sorry, I cut you off. I think [00:18:30] there was more you were gonna add

Speaker 2: to this. No, that was really important.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And ultimately, this really comes from an unwavering belief that for the right people, you are the right fit. Like the example of if you had the cure for cancer, you would probably screaming it from the rooftops. You would probably be like force feeding it to your friends and family members who have cancer, if any.

Knock on wood, if for the right person you would show up in an unmarked van and kidnap them and break them to your gym because you know it’s going to be the thing they absolutely need to change their life. And I’m being, again, a [00:19:00] little bit hyperbolic here, but there is this element of like belief that what you do is good, which I not just good, outstanding for the right person, possibly the best in class in your geographic area.

And I know that’s tough. If you are someone who is like an impact driven trainer looking to optimize income and freedom, because you’re probably comparing yourself to Cressey and Boyle and whoever else you look up to and you’re like, if I could only be 80% as good as them.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker 2: So there’s this balance of loving how good you are [00:19:30] now, knowing there’s always the next iteration that’s going to change.

And my hack for this, because I can get in my own head about it, as you can clearly tell, is reading wins and client testimonials. If you’re feeling down about how good your gym is because a long-term client just quit and you’ve got a sales conversation later this afternoon, read all your fucking Google reviews.

You’ll walk away being like, holy shit, this place is the cure for cancer. I cannot believe

Speaker: So assuming you have mostly good Google reviews.

Speaker 2: Yeah. They’re all bad. You [00:20:00] might have another problem to solve and maybe listen to a different one of our podcasts. Both fulfillment. Yeah. But yes, assuming they’re good or one of my highlights of one of bfu, we have a client wins channel.

So whenever there’s a client wins, we put them in a Slack channel just internal. Oh my God. It’s feels so good to be making such a difference as someone who wants to help people. Seeing that we’re actually helping people front and center. Particularly like at my gym, I’m not on the floor all the time, so I don’t see those daily wins and little accomplishments.

It’s just so impactful for that [00:20:30] ongoing belief. And it can’t come with like a blindness that you’re just like, we’re the best for everybody all the time. You have a really clear avatar. You know who you help, you know how you help them and why that’s going to change their life. And you’re like willing to kidnap them like Will Ferrell gets kidnapped in old school?

Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah. Good reference. Good reference. Thank you. Yeah, we’re very pro kidnapping on this podcast. Love it. We’re all over the

Speaker 2: map.

Speaker: Listen, analogies work sometimes. Yeah. But yeah, I’ll, I agree with all of that. I think [00:21:00] that’s really well said. And I think my, my summary of all that is that. Confidence is not.

Having confidence in a sales conversation is like a non-starter. You gotta have it. You gotta have confidence. And whether you had it once and lost it or never had in the first place, you gotta find it. It’s just a key ingredient. And when people don’t have it, it’s really hard for the conversation to go well, right?

People are coming to you ’cause it’s, they need help doing something, starting something, continuing, something that they have a hard time doing on their own. They’re asking first your help and support. If you can’t come to that conversation with some [00:21:30] energy and passion and confidence that you’re the right solution.

Ugh, you’re dead in the water. Obviously, you just named a ton of things that can help improve people’s people’s confidence. I’ll summarize, but I think it’s really down to two key ingredients at least to start is the first is a mindset that you believe you actually have a great solution. You really have to have a true belief that the services that you’re offering are the right solution for your avatar.

You have to really believe it. Whether it takes going to read your [00:22:00] testimonials or talking to long-term clients, remind yourself that you have to come with that belief. And then the second thing I think for me is just reps, just genuine rep, genuine repetition. Knowing what your roadmap is for your sales conversation, practicing what words to use when it’s a little bit like learning a new language, right?

And so learning how to speak that language of your sales process, you just, it just takes time in addition to all the other things you said are also crazy important, having a script, et cetera, et cetera. But I think [00:22:30] those are the two for me that stand out, that if you don’t have those, you’re nothing else matters after that.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. It’s almost a willingness for the second one to collect some nos and not let it shake your belief that you can’t do it. Oh, this didn’t work twice, so I can’t do it anymore. It’s, nah, you just need practice. Like how good were your clients first two reps of lunges when they didn’t ever done ’em before?

Like they’re probably shit, that doesn’t mean they should give up.

Speaker: Yeah, 100%. I remember back in, I don’t know, 20 11, 20 20 12, when I first went to coaching school and got my [00:23:00] coaching certification, I had to do like hundreds of hours of coaching conversations and back then, this is how old I’m, it was all by phone, so we were just coaching people by phone and I had to do, I don’t know, a couple hundred hours of coaching conversations just by phone with like other students and peers and also real life people.

And I would. Kill to hear some of the, they’re not recorded, but I was,

Speaker 2: I was just gonna ask, can I get that game?

Speaker: Dude, I wish I, I, I wish, but I don’t wish, because what I was gonna say is they must have been so bad, right? Like me just [00:23:30] getting those reps in, who knows what I was doing on those calls, but it doesn’t matter, right?

The point was. That the, the school knew well enough that if you wanna learn to be good at this skill coaching, which is very similar to learning the skill of sales, you just need to reps it. We can’t let you graduate until you’ve done a few hundred hours of practice because that’s just what it takes to learn this new language.

And I think, you know, I just. I have a bias for that reason is ’cause I know that it really helped me. And so just don’t be afraid to suck and just keep getting in the reps because I’ve seen it [00:24:00] work with other people too. It’s not just my own bias. I’m biased also ’cause I’ve seen it happen with other people learning these kinds of skills.

Yeah. Alright, so we’ve covered three pitfalls. We’ve covered a bunch of solutions, those pitfalls. Any kind of final thoughts to our friends out there who wanna improve with sales and use these lessons to do it

Speaker 2: well In the hope of making this podcast actually. Actionable for you, dear listeners. Yeah. As we are going through this list, I’m hoping one of these maybe stood out to you a little bit more than the others, and what I would hope you would do with that, once you’ve identified the [00:24:30] one that stands out, is take action on the solution.

Get your reps in, and I’d love for you to actually report back and see. Let us know what impact that made for you. If you’re rambling, practice that damn script. If you’re over explaining, catch yourself and get feedback. Ask for feedback in the moment. If you’re having a lack of confidence, try reading testimonials and getting more reps in.

Like you’re always, if every year you’re not looking back and being like a little bit ashamed of how good you weren’t back then, yes. It means you’re not improving. That journey never ends until we [00:25:00] stop or die.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker 2: So embrace the journey and tackle whatever your biggest fish to fry is first and deal with the next one later.

Speaker: Yeah. Well said, Ben said. Alright, friends, that’s it. That’s our episode. Hope this was valuable. I agree with Ben. Go do all those things and then let us know. Shoot us a message on Instagram. Just DM us. Let us know what you tried, or shoot us an email, just Ben orMichael@businessunicorns.com and we would love to hear from you about whether or not you tried any of the things we talked about here today.

And that goes for all our podcasts. We’d love to hear from you. Very few of you actually do reach out. [00:25:30] No shade, but we would love to hear from you. So let you be the one who reaches out and finally emails us. We’d appreciate it. But thanks again, Ben, for a great conversation and I’ll see you all in the next one.

Speaker 2: Thank you.

Get up, get [00:26:00] up.