How to Get Punched in the Gut with Mark Fisher

Speaker: [00:00:00] 1, 2, 3, 4. Welcome to The Business for Unicorns podcast, where we help gym and studio owners create a business and a life they love. I’m your host, Michael Keeler. Join me and the business unicorns team each week for actionable advice, expert insights, and the inside scoop on what it really takes to level up your gym.
Get ready to unlock your potential and become a real unicorn in the fitness industry.[00:00:30]
Yeah. Hello my friend. If you are looking for a business expense paid trip to get out of town and you wanna get around some like-minded business owners and maybe spend the weekend learning from me and the rest of the business unicorns team, you’ll really wanna check out our next Unicorn Society retreat.
Although this event is really for our members of Unicorn Society, we always open up a small handful of seats for gym owners who are curious to see [00:01:00] what BFU is all about. Our ABLE retreat is happening on Friday, April 3rd and Saturday April 4th, and it’s in Atlanta, Georgia, and it’s all about marketing and sales.
That’s our theme for those two days. You’ll learn what the best gym owners are doing to grow their gym. Month over month. You’ll get a shot of inspiration, some momentum and clarity, and you’ll spend some quality time with some of the most successful. Driven and honestly friendly gym owners in the industry.
So to get our full agenda and learn more about what the weekend includes, click low in the show notes [00:01:30] and you’ll have all the information there. Hope to see you in April. Hello, fitness Business Nerds. What’s up? Welcome to another episode of the Business Free Accordance podcast. We’re recording this podcast in a new year and it’s.
Probably late in January. For all of you listening, this is probably the first one we’re recording in the new year, so I’m gonna say Happy New Year Fisher. How are you?
Speaker 2: I am good. Yeah, middle. We’re back in the shot outta the can here, but could, yeah,
Speaker: 100%. The beginning of January is no one’s favorite time to do any work.[00:02:00]
Everyone’s circling back to those pre-holiday emails and slacks and everyone wants to hit the ground running and boy have we. We certainly have. So I hope all of you had a great holiday season and you’re. Your 2026 is off to a great start. Your January is going swimmingly and today Fisher and I wanna talk about a topic that’s, it’s come up a lot, both at Business unicorns recently, and I know it’s come in a lot of our conversations with gym owners and the topic broadly is shame.
It’s shame that
Speaker 2: I might say it’s actually, I don’t know that anyone actually probably [00:02:30] says that word. Exactly. Which is probably why we’re need to have this conversation.
Speaker: That’s exactly why’re, I’m gonna call it what it is from the beginning.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: And then we’ll circle back to the fact that it’s not gonna present like that.
Mm-hmm. So, lemme just talk about all of your clients at your gym first, and just give context for what we’re gonna talk about today. I’ll use Mark Fisher Fitness as an example. So when we owned Mark Fisher Fitness, we saw this on a regular basis.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
Speaker: We saw members who would be missing for a few weeks, even just a week or two, and we would reach out and we had a process for reaching out to MIA folks, as all of you should.
We’d reach out and maybe not hear from them for a little while, [00:03:00] and a few texts would turn into maybe a few phone calls or a few emails, a few automated messages, and. Our team wouldn’t hear from them. And then eventually one day, maybe a few weeks or months later, we would hear from them and they would tell us something about what life just got in the way.
Something came up. Maybe it was work, maybe it was profession, personal, and they had to stop coming for a little while, like they couldn’t come to the gym. And they don’t say this, but then what they proceed to describe to you over the next few minutes is really what is often, I would call like a shame spiral.
They [00:03:30] felt bad about not coming. Then they felt bad about ignoring our texts. They felt bad about ignoring our calls. They felt bad. Maybe they were putting on some weight or maybe feeling a little deconditioned, not so great in their body. They felt bad about that, about losing the progress they had made and feeling all bad about that made them run and hide at a moment when they maybe needed us most.
They pushed themselves so far away from us that we couldn’t even help if we tried. Mm-hmm. So anything you wanna add to that from a kind of client perspective? Fisher? I know we’ve, we saw that happen and still I’m sure that happens Yeah. At Alloy, but [00:04:00] what’s your perspective on this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it’s interesting, the thing, ’cause we’re obviously thinking about this.
We wanna discuss this, how this might show up for you gym owner as a yes. Gym owner experiencing this. But I would say this, the one I will say the maybe stickier bit that a lot of clients have to deal with is in that particular scenario. You can take us to what it’s worth with your own clients is there is an additional element of shame based on their concerns about other people’s perceptions.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker 2: Which like is not unreasonable. Like I get it, and this has always been the double edged sword. There’s a lot of very strong [00:04:30] opinions in the industry about how one should approach aesthetics and fat loss or not, et cetera, et cetera. But in practice that is what a lot of people want is like probably the majority.
And some people do have success for a while, and then things come up and then perversely their own. Not only do they feel bad about coming back in or in some situations they just, it’s so hard to get the. The snowball rolling again, they, and because they know it’s, they’re gonna feel like crap and they’re gonna feel deconditioned.
But the other element there is if they have gained a few pounds feeling, oh my God, the [00:05:00] other clients are gonna judge me and I’m gonna see myself in those same mirrors,
Speaker: my
Speaker 2: trainer’s
Speaker: gonna be mad at me.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I think gym owners, it’s a little bit different though, unfortunately, oddly perversely. I think this does show up if you’re in a coaching group, if you’re looking at numbers, because now I have to look at somebody that knows my numbers by getting on the scale, so to speak.
Yeah. Arguably it’s hopefully a little bit less fraught, but maybe not that much less fraught. Yeah. A lot of entrepreneurs put a lot of value in. Uh, the results that we’re getting according to our numbers. And there, I think there can be [00:05:30] similar phenomenon, but I would just note that I think it’s just even more intense to the general population client because they’re feeling like everybody else is going to see this.
Whereas we’re not usually in the business of making the. A, any of our gym owners share their numbers with everybody else in the entire unicorn society.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure. And I have lots of thoughts about this experience for gym owners, but I’m gonna stick with the clients for now just because I think a lot of our listeners will resonate and understand this kind of cycle from that perspective a little bit easier off the bat, but mm-hmm.
Speaker 3: One
Speaker: thing I wanted to say about this is that I called it a shame spiral, but I actually think that’s [00:06:00] like the wrong way of thinking about it. I actually think it’s more like a loop. And while spirals do loop, I think this does come full circle. I think for a lot of folks there’s like the initial kind of.
Internal external shame. Hopefully it’s just internal. No one’s externally shamed you at a gym. Mm-hmm. That then leads to this kind of self-criticism of us having this negative self-talk, which leads us to pull ourselves in and down. We would withdrawal and run away from that. And that has a real world cost because now we’re disconnected from anything that could lift us up.
Yes. Or kick us out of it. [00:06:30] And then that isolation reinforces the shame, right? Mm-hmm. And then we’re right back at the beginning again, and I think that. With clients, I think you all know this already, but it’s worth saying that your job is to always re be reaching out to them with curiosity and non-judgment.
Your job is to make sure you meet them wherever they’re at, even when they have fallen. Yep. And stopped coming, and find an easy on-ramp for them to come back at to acknowledge the fact. They might have some embarrassment or shame and say, that’s okay. That’s normal. That’s part of the process and to [00:07:00] educate them from even the beginning to expect something like this to happen.
Yeah. I know part of one of our boarding for at Mark Fisher Fitness was talking to people that progress is not a linear Yep. Right line up until the right, that it’s full of ups and downs and when you should embrace us most is when you feeling down. And that’s the thing that I see happening a lot with our Unicorn society members is folks who have had a few bad months.
Mm-hmm. And revenue is down, or they’ve done some real bad spending things and their profit is just out the window. Maybe they’re even in the red for a [00:07:30] little while.
Speaker 2: Yep. Yep.
Speaker: They’ve lost some T numbers, got some bad reviews, like it’s a number of things that can trigger it. But then what happens is they retreat in, they retreat in and down.
Yes. They stop showing up for coaching calls. They stop showing up to our office hours. And then in that moment when they really need. External help and validation and support the most is when they’re so far away from us. And then I’ll get on a call with them and they’ll do the same thing that our clients do to us at the gym is they’ll say they’ve gotten in the way and that I really couldn’t get to you, and I was so busy putting out the fires.
I couldn’t actually come and ask for [00:08:00] help. And so it’s sticky to get that, that it’s so true that when things are going poorly, you feel like you just gotta put out the fires. There’s no time to reach out and call your neighbor and say, Hey, help me out. But that’s the time when I think asking for that kind of help and using that kind of support is most.
Is most useful.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes.
Speaker: Yeah. And so while those two scenarios are different, I do think they have a similar kind of loop in the center of them that revolves around just the embarrassment of not being the best, who know you can be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I, I think that’s right. And I would say that on the other hand, maybe where gym [00:08:30] owners, I think, and business owners to some extent have it worse, is holy cow, you can get in your own head.
Oh my gosh. Oh geez. Yeah. And I think like arguably the world needs to normalize more getting punched in the dick. It’s not, and it’s funny, I I actually, this is time that I wrote an article, a post for BPH unicorns. It’s probably a couple months away, but this sort of phenomenon, if you ask any entrepreneur how it’s going, it’s great.
Couldn’t be better. It’s amazing. That’s, I can’t true all the time ’cause no one’s going up in the right all the time. [00:09:00] Even if overall you’re doing very well, you’re gonna have ebbs where things are worse than they were going and it just feels crappy. I think the longer you’re in the game, maybe my own experiences, the more you get.
A little bit inured and trusted. Oh, okay. This is like one of those things where things are going bad for a while, but particularly so much of your, the client, that begins to take so much pride and so much gratification in a certain level of. Athleticism or a certain physique accomplishment. It’s almost worse too, if the gym owner starts to [00:09:30] take a lot of pride, and that’s a little art too, like I’ve thought about that too.
Even in our community. It’s an interesting balance because there is a perverse risk where if we like, oh, we wanna celebrate this person. They did this thing. Holy crap. Yes. Then six months later, the winds are blowing the other way. It’s not forever blowing the other way, but they’re going through like a downstream, and now it’s.
I sometimes afraid they’re gonna be like ashamed if they see a testimonial up there or,
Speaker: yeah.
Speaker 2: So I think hopefully, but you’ll maybe have some more tactical things. But my biggest contribution is hopefully just like normalizing. This is normal.
Speaker: Yeah. [00:10:00] I’ve seen that happen in both cases back in our Mark Fisher fitness days.
Yeah. We used to do, used to progress pictures and I know several people who won our project picture contest back then. Yeah. And then, and have. So much shame looking back at that. Everyone knows me as that and I’m not that anymore. And I also hear from gym owners in Unicorn society, we have these channels where we share wins.
And I’ve heard several people over the years say, are people all really having those wins? I feel so bad ’cause I can’t, I haven’t achieved anything like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah,
Speaker: right. Like how are they doing that? And I’m like, that’s part [00:10:30] of why we post them is so you can go talk to them. And ask us what they’re doing and share ideas.
But it doesn’t feel good in the moment to see everyone else succeeding when you just got punched in the gut.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: Or the deck or wherever you got punched. Yeah. And so I think it’s tough ’cause it’s hard to balance both celebrating all the great work and recognizing that any portion of our community, any moment it’s struggling.
Struggling. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it’s, it is an interesting, yeah, I do think about this a lot. It’s like an interesting. Phenomenon. Certainly the thing that would help, I think if more people are more forthright that things are not going [00:11:00] well all the time, and I used to have a little chip on my shoulder about that too, because obviously, yeah, it’s just I feel like everybody signed something.
Oh, things used to be so hard, but then I did this thing and now things are amazing. But then a year later they’re like, oh, a year ago things were so hard that time, then I did this thing and now sign up for my high ticket. But I can be, I can roll my eyes and feel a little bit cynical at that, I think to the defense of those kinds of individuals.
I’ve also heard, I think there is maybe some. Validity to the share the scars. Maybe not the open gaping wounds. Wounds. And for better or for, I’m ne I’m, I’ve never been good [00:11:30] at pretending things are going great if they’re not. Like I don’t really have that skillset, but, but it is interesting. I think like that’s part of the issue too, is the sense that everything is going well for the other people and it’s just not sure and anybody that it is going well for you can guarantee at some point in the next one to three years.
Things are gonna be unbelievably hard and an incredibly unlikely event. Their businesses going up to the right. I guarantee you horrible things. Were following them in their personal life. ’cause this is just, this is what being a human is just hard. It’s hard.
Speaker: 100%. [00:12:00] Yeah. I think that’s a real, that’s a really big piece of it is just understanding, just like following up friends and family and peers on social media, people are all displaying the best versions of their lives and their selves, and the best photos of themselves from all the right angles with the best lighting.
Right, all of it. Everyone’s a thought leader with all the most prescient, precious, prescient thoughts in the most concise way ever. The most poetic language. That’s not everyone every day. And even though I know that intellectually it’s still hard, yeah, to [00:12:30] not compare and despair. But I think one of the things that I.
That I often try and lean on in our coaching calls with people who I find in that cycle of comparing and despairing or thinking that everyone else is achieving and I’m not, is really try to shift into what can I learn from this energy? I think any organization that has, all organizations have ups and downs, and the ones that last the longest turns the downs into lessons we learned, which is a cliche, but I think we all know that.
We all know that the best thing to do when you’re down is to learn from it and never have it [00:13:00] happen again. But it’s hard to really find that energy when you’re down.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker: But I think if something that I, in a good coaching conversation can help with is say, okay, listen, you’re down right now and just got kicked in the dick, but let’s just talk about what it feels like.
Let’s talk about how you got here. Let’s talk about all the factors that contributed to that, this, and then let’s unpack it. So we can really understand what happened, and then let’s put some things in place to make sure this actually doesn’t happen again. Let’s do some learning on your team, learning amongst your whole client community, whatever the lesson thing is, and just switching from that kind of victim [00:13:30] energy to that curious energy, to that learning energy, to that lean in and let me figure this out.
Energy. Yeah, that is the shift. If you can move from down on the ground, victim licking your wounds, which you have to do sometimes.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: To, okay, now what? Just that opening the opening door a little bit, that shift is all it takes to find some new momentum.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that’s true. I’m a broken record about this particular piece, and admittedly this is arguably something we could probably think through.
How can we do this more in something like the Unicorn Society and certainly was part of, I think, our [00:14:00] vision for where we want the Leadership Society to go. There’s also something said for pain shared as pain divided, and not only for the person sharing, but for the individuals that get to bear witness to the other person being vulnerable.
Yeah. There’s just something so profoundly. Humanizing it about that there is a deepening of the connection that is available for people that are able to be honest about moments that are tricky and moments that are hard and again, harder to do than to say and but is some a cliche that certainly a lot of men are not necessarily socialize if [00:14:30] that’s how you know they can find some sustenance in rocky paths.
I dunno that you and I ever quite got that message, but. Yeah, I think having spaces in places where you can share what’s hard, which again, ideally would be the coach. I think that’s what’s so interesting about this kind of dynamic is in theory, that’s the person you go to the coach, to the Michael Kier, to like share, oh, this is hard.
So that can be seen, and there’s an emotional tending in addition to any sort of problem solving. But oftentimes if that person is put up on a little bit of a pedestal, that’s also the person you’re most [00:15:00] reticent to share that things are hard with because you’re embarrassed. You maybe feel like you’ve let them down in perverse situations.
Speaker: Yes. Yeah, exactly. And that’s what we talk about on our coaching team all the time. Yeah. Is there’s plenty of people on our Be For You team who are really accomplished folks. And I think while we try our best to create relationships with all of our unicorn setting members, that’s one where we trust each other and I’m here for you.
Not just when things are good, but when things are really suck. You might be hesitant to. To tell me something that’s really shitty because some party wants to impress me or not let me down. But the reality is, [00:15:30] for all of you, unicorns, I remember, listen, I know there’s a bunch of you, the mo, the thing you do the most to let me down is to disappear when things suck.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: That’s the thing that actually piss off, like when things are really shitty and then you don’t ask for the help that we’re right here to provide. That’s what makes me not mad, but really just sad, right? Because it’s literally what we’re here to do. And then when I don’t hear from you a while and then I learn something happened, I’m like.
Why didn’t you just ask? And so that’s the place where, you know, I hope all of you reach out, get the support you need in those moments when you’re down.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: I know it’s hard to do, [00:16:00] but especially if you’re paying for a group like this or any others. Yes. Go u, use it. Use us. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Any other closing thoughts on this topic, Fisher?
Speaker 2: No, I think we’ve covered, I think it is important topic. It’s one, I think we just, it’s a parental topic. We just have to keep talking about I, because also the thing too that if you’re listening to this right now and things are good, you probably didn’t even listen to this podcast. Like, whereas hopefully this providing you a little bit of emotional.
Sucker Super. S-U-C-C-O-R, I dunno how you say that.
Speaker: Oh yeah. Yep.
Speaker 2: You got good stuff. Hopefully he’s reminding you some good stuff if feel.
Speaker: And also, I also pledge on [00:16:30] here and it, we’ll keep doing this, that we’ll keep doing podcasts about things that we fucked up. Yeah. Now we’ll keep sharing. We’ve done a bunch already.
We’re constantly making mistakes and so we’re never gonna be short on lessons we’ve learned from the things we’ve fucked up. Yeah. And I know whenever I do share those in talks or in workshops or in one-on-one conversations, people always are like, thank you so much for sharing that. It’s great to know that even though you’ve had all this success, you’ve.
Also fucked up a lot. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It’s inevitable. Yeah. We’re gonna keep fucking up and so, you know, we promise on this podcast, keep it real and also share you [00:17:00] the things we’re messing up. Awesome. Thanks as always for a great conversation Fisher, and thank you all for listening. Have a kick as week and we’ll see you on the next one.
Speaker 2: Bye-bye.