How to Actually Drive Sales Off Instagram w/ Chris, Mike, and Mark

Speaker 1 0:02
Mike, welcome to the business for unicorns podcast where we help gym and studio owners create a business and a life they love. I’m your host. Michael Keeler, join me and the business unicorns team each week for actionable advice, expert insights and the inside scoop on what it really takes to level up your gym. Get ready to unlock your potential and become a real unicorn in the fitness industry.

Speaker 2 0:37
Hello and welcome to the business unicorns podcast. My name is Mark Fisher. I’m here today with the inimitable Chris Travis and Mike branch. Gentlemen, how you doing today? Doing great. Can’t complain, awesome. Guys. Listen. We’re going to dive right in, if it’s okay, listeners, because I demanded that these two illustrious be for you coaches. Get on the podcast with me and talk about a little something we like to call sell by chat. And the reason is, hearing mixed things out there in the world, arguably, one of my jobs is the chief truffle pig of greatness, where I’m hungrily sniffing about the entire fitness industry, trying to find who’s doing what, who’s succeeding success, and then trying to unpack what is actually like, useful at scale. What is useful in what situations? Sell by chat? For those not familiar, just as a brief preface, essentially just refers to a strategy where, by which you start conversations with Instagram, typically followers, but sometimes people that aren’t followers, that comment or otherwise engage with your content. Because the knock on Instagram, which is a fair one, and certainly one I’ve made, is organic reach being what it is. One of the best uses of Instagram is to actual start conversations, one on one with people. I should also note this is different than cold DMing a bunch of randos that is not we think the best for your brand, and could actually get you in Facebook meta jail. However, if there’s people that are local that you don’t know personally, that have expressed some signal of interest in your locally branded gym that they know is gym, probably not a bad idea to start a conversation. Say hello and be friendly. Now, the final thing I’ll say before I open up to these two gents is the name implies that you’re selling in the DM, right? We’re selling via chat. And certainly listen, this only makes sense if at some point, some of these individuals decide to move forward and hire your gym. If you’re spending in fact, it’s definitely the worst thing you could do if you’re spending a lot of time having a lot of conversations, and no one is ever signing up. We should stop doing that, because it’s fun to have friends, but ultimately, there’s just only so many hours in the day. You only have so much time and so much money for marketing efforts. So we might be best doing other things in that situation. But I do want to just name for me the term sell by chat, I find a little bit garish, right? It’s like I’m getting a DMS. I’m gonna sell you. I’m gonna sell you. And again, some people do need to make it into the end zone, but I like to think of it as more like nurture by chat or friendship by chat, right where we’re starting conversations. We’re trying to be friendly, and then, yeah, some of them will ultimately need to buy stuff. Anything you two gentlemen would add, as far as explaining what sell by chat is if somebody’s not heard that term or understands the strategy, I don’t

Unknown Speaker 3:23
think so. I think you covered it pretty well,

Speaker 2 3:24
nailing it. Okay, great. Okay, let’s go into this. If it’s okay, maybe one by one, I can ask each of you to share a little bit about your strategy for this, because I think the other context I’ll give to listeners is this came out of me, reaching out and finding out. Saw by chat. First of all, is a playbook we have. So if you work with senior corn side, you have a set A done for you, set of systems that you can use, that come with scripts and principles and considerations, that if you’re going to do the strategy, this would be the best way to do it right. But of course, the other complexity you have as a business owner is you’re constantly having to assess, where am I getting the best return for my limited time, money and effort that I can put forth for marketing and sales activity, and since we first rolled out that chat over the past several years, first of all, Instagram’s organic algorithm has changed, right? And I’ve gotten pretty bearish on doing tons and tons of content every day. I just don’t see it driving value. But I wanted, I reached out to a bunch of gym owners about sell by chat, and will is a fun counterpoint. Here I will share some of the maybe surprising digs against sell by chat for some mutual friends of ours that have some data that was pretty compelling. They were like, yep, we don’t do it, and here’s why. But clearly, can work some of the time. So I guess the one thing I want to be very clear with this, and it’s hard because everything is always it depends is we’re going to tell you about this, but I don’t think we’re saying unequivocally every gym owner needs to be running sell by chat. What we’re saying is Chris and Mike are both having some actual and this is important, trackable success that they can point to. That leaves both of you, two very accomplished, very intelligent. And saying, like, Look, I’ve weighed the pros and cons. This is a good enough use of the time. The amount of effort I’m putting into it, I’m getting commensured returns, and it’s worth it. Maybe we can start off with Chris, if you want to just give us, like, the insight into, maybe a little context for your Instagram strategy in general, I’d love for you to just share how you currently think about how you’re posting, because again, if we’re not posting, if we’re not there at all, we’re not going to presume they have opportunities for people to engage. And then just let us know everything about your strategy. I’d love to hear like, how do you decide to DM how often you following up? You can even let us know what you use is your open. He says in quotes, open is sell by chat speak listeners for what is the first message you send? Yeah, Chris, teach us. Tell us. What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you finding? Tell us more.

Speaker 3 5:43
Yeah, I think General Instagram strategy for us is, obviously, we’re posting three times a week pretty consistently, sometimes up to five times, depending on the week. And we, because we have multiple locations, which I think is a little unconventional, we actually manage individual Instagram accounts for each location. And a big reason for that is because, again, thinking about three mile famous, which I know Mike is going to have a great presentation on in Atlanta, we want to make a community within that Instagram account of the people that live in that community. So that’s our general strategy. And then every follow, and we just do follows, every follow that we have, we hit them with a DM, any new follow, and we say, Hey, thanks for following. SSP, like, How’d you hear about us? We just want to open a conversation and kind of see what comes back. It’s funny, because the backstory on this is, I remember going to the Austin retreat when you initially presented on this, and I think you gave a stat that said something to the effect of one in 65 or 70 is going to convert into a consultation. I thought to myself, that is bananas, and there’s no way I’m spending time on this. And then I debriefed my team. We were like, This is a tool that we have not used. Let’s just give it a shot and see what happens and test some results. So as we started doing this, the funny thing is, it looks more like one in 20 for us in terms of engaging people, getting them in, actually into a consultation, and actually for new locations, it’s more like one in 10. So when we actually open a new Instagram account and we start boosting posts and we start engaging with the audience that comes in, we actually get a very active and engaged audience, and we’re actually driving those people into assessments. So again, I don’t think it’s if you only had limited resources. Certainly I would say maybe this is not something that you want to spend a ton of time on. But I do believe if you do have the resource, and you have a great SOP against it, it’s not going to take a ton of time. And there is fruit to be had here, right? If you continue cultivating it, there is a channel here, and it will just add on and compound over time.

Speaker 2 7:36
Yes, I think a few things I’d maybe highlight there for people listening. The first one is, this is maybe it is if you’re opening up multiple occasions. But the best practice here is, if you have more than one location, they’re going to want to each have their own Instagram. It’s hard to draft off a single Instagram account. Again, I wouldn’t say anything is wrong, but I would say that’s incorrect. You’re going to need to have probably different Instagram accounts, which I know is annoying, it’s more to manage. That’s just like the nature of the beast, yeah, particularly if you’re gonna look to apply some of the strategies. The other another observation is, yeah, obviously like one out of 10. One out of 20 is like absolute Banana Grams. In fact, the sell by chat standard in general right now, I think, is like one out of 100 and I don’t think most gyms even get that. So a few things, if we can, just like, dig in here for myself and for our listeners. So you mentioned boosting posts. When you boost posts, are you boosting? Is this? Am I correct that this is like, organic content that gets some traction. You build an ad set that’s more of a brand awareness ad set in ads manager, are you boosting it through the app? Is that the type of content you’re boosting tell us more about how you boost?

Speaker 3 8:46
Yeah, yes and no. Honestly, it’s a very simple strategy, and it’s something that I just started to experiment with last year, that we’ve seen good results from the and I boosted a lot of different posts. I boosted reels, I’ve boosted static posts. I’ve looked at the results and tried to understand what what resonated most, honestly, the best post that we boost, which is now a core part of our strategy, is just very static member appreciation posts has a picture of the member in front of our logo, has a box with a great quote about SSP, and we boost that. And again, in that actual caption, there’s a great quote, and there’s like a story of the member and everything about that, they look like our avatar. Yep, there actually isn’t a CTA in that organic post. It’s just a post that goes up on our page. We boost it. And again, I used to play with drive traffic to website. Drive traffic to profile, trying to play with what I wanted to get best. We found that profile visits worked best. So we drive to profile. We boost somewhere between 15 and $20 a day for about seven days a member appreciation. Post again, so you’re only spending 102 50 bucks during that seven day window, not a huge spend. We typically get back somewhere between seven and 20 follows from those seven days. And so every again, every follow that we. Get back, we’re then DMing and saying, Hey, how’d you hear about us? And if we get 20 follows, we can guarantee probably at least one of those is going to book a consultation based on our stats. So again, not a huge effort, but there is a reward here for just putting in a little bit.

Speaker 2 10:16
Yeah, that makes sense. So if I’m hearing seven to 20 follows off, you said 150 spend. So you’re spending, well, you’re getting like five to $15 a follow. Is that right? That’s right, yeah, yeah. And this is interesting too, right? Because when you look at that strategy, if you compare that and now this, of course, depends on your CPL and your given market, which depends on your ad strategy, etc, but like, a $15 follow is in some markets, not that different than the just the cost per lead for an email versus a direct response ad, right? And then, if you’re getting 5% throughput, we would usually want, if it’s a traditional direct response ad, we probably would actually want even more throughput to membership, net, like in a perfect world. However, I think as an alternative strategy, this strikes me as if you’re gonna do the sell by chats, play, there’s a lot to be considered here. And part what I like about it is it’s a little bit, if you forgive me for using the word orthogonal, it’s a little bit different. It’s a little bit off to the skew from a traditional direct response play, and then when you build the boosting. So some of you will note that some of you won’t, you can boost in the Instagram app. That is generally strongly discouraged because, first of all, Apple’s gonna keep a lot of the fee, and then, second of all, you don’t nearly have the targeting capabilities. Am I correct, Chris when you say you’re boosting these posts, which, again, I wanna highlight, this is testimonial posts with no call to action, you are creating ad set. Is that correct? Correct? Yeah, and

Speaker 3 11:44
I boost them in meta so Facebook ads manager and I take off the advantage creative, because I’d hate what Facebook and Instagram does to our ads. I just wanted to run as a static post, and we’re very specific to the zip codes, yes, directly around us, within three to five miles that we feel like has our avatar. Yeah. And this is

Speaker 2 12:03
interesting, too. So I’ve been having some conversations around in general, with a few gym owners about the pros and cons of running kind of a brand awareness layer. So this, I think, a separate but related conversation we’re having here is there’s, of course, most gym owners, when you think of paid ads for a long time, and I think this is still probably conventional wisdom, probably conventional wisdom, probably still makes sense most of the time. You’re running ads to offers, and usually the offers just get on the phone. It’s a generic benefit, rich thing, and you’re just trying to drive people to a phone call to sell, whatever the next thing is, which might be coming for an actual sales conversation. It might be a low barrier offer, etc. And one school of thought says that’s just the simplest way to do it. It’s just efficient. Just sell them the thing they want a gym. It’s if they want a sandwich and they’re hungry, sell them a sandwich. Don’t send content about how great our sandwiches are and our artisanal deli meats. Just Just give them a sandwich that they’re hungry, they want a sandwich. And one argument would go, okay, particularly not only receiving simplicity, but the cost per acquisition. If it doesn’t change, there’s no sense in spending extra money on a top layer of just brand awareness. However, again, there’s some debate about this in more mature markets. We’re starting to say, okay, are people getting beat up by all these direct response ads? Are there economical ways we can get our business in front of them? We’ve also seen because of the plummeting of organic reach for Instagram. Organic Instagram is a nurture strategy. Doesn’t really do what it did three to five years ago. Unless you’re very good at the content game, and most gym owners are not, you’re not gonna be showing up in a lot of feeds, because a lot of the feeds is now pay to play in suggested Tiktok kind of content. So it strikes me, too, Chris, part of what you’re doing there is you’re actually just like essentially paying for the type of content that in five years ago, you would have wanted to just populate into followers feeds. But the difference is, you’re using some spend to do it. You’re able to target it more precisely. You’re able to identify the particular kind of content you want showing up in feeds, and furthermore, you’re using it as a discover strategy for new people to find you and follow you, as opposed to necessarily nurturing your existing followers and audience. Is that all correct?

Speaker 3 14:07
That is totally correct. And I also think one thing that is harder to measure, and I think if you’re looking at your website traffic on a regular basis, right Google Analytics, or whatever tool that you use, if you’re looking at direct traffic and you’re boosting a bunch of posts, ideally, what you’re also seeing is that you’re seeing an effect on your direct traffic. So there’s that are actually looking at the post, seeing it on Instagram, yeah, maybe going to your profile. They may or may not follow you, but they are going to Google and searching Seattle strength and performance and going to your website, yeah, I think there is an effect here that’s harder to measure, yeah, yeah. And we’ve talked about

Speaker 2 14:41
too, and we’ve talked about too, and that’s maybe like a future podcast, not time for today, about the importance of really dialing in SEO and answer engine optimization and whatever we I don’t think we’ve decided the name of that yet, but so you show up in chat bot search, more and more, meta has gotten so ugly and so brutal, and the cost booties gone so high. And mature markets in particular, just so burnt that I think really making sure you’re getting in front of the high intent prospects really is going to matter. Okay, thanks for that, Chris. Let’s pivot over to you, Mr. Mike. Now I know you’ve also had a lot of success as well. Can you, similarly, just give us insight in your overall strategy, what sort of numbers you’re seeing, how you’re thinking about it, hit us up Absolutely.

Speaker 4 15:23
So we’re posting a little bit more on average, I think, than Chris is right now we’re doing four posts a week, typically with two engaging stories. So something with a poll, more question to

Speaker 2 15:35
be answered. And is that two engaging stories per week? Yes. So in other words, okay, so there’s four feed posts and then two stories that have some sort of simple call to action, like a poll or something you want them to engage. Yeah, and it’s

Speaker 4 15:48
typically we’ll seem out our month. So it’s talking about in May, maybe talking about strength for women, with Mother’s Day promotions and things coming up. So we’ll talk a little bit more about that. And in the feed post, it’ll typically go like, Monday, Monday is more so a flying shout out post. Tuesday is gonna be like the theme education on Wednesday. Then we’ll repost that on our story, a little bit more commentary, and then some sort of, like, question, poll, whatever. And then from there, I think the other part of our strategy really relies heavy on collaborations, which I think is severely underplayed, where anytime there’s a member in a post, or we look at business partnerships as a heavy one, but especially memberships, if a member just like the picture of them or video of them deadlifting or being interviewed, or man on the street style, just like back and forth bullshit questions, we’re going to just collab them. Hit them with collabs, and if there’s multiple members in it, same thing, we see a lot of traffic coming from those posts specifically, which is an extremely warm lead when you go to chat them up after they either follow you. Or the case for what we do is not just the followers, but I’ll go to those posts and see who liked it and just be like, Hey, thanks for liking our posts. Just want to know how you found it. And they’re gonna be like, Oh, my friend is in it. It’s on their page. Oh, we love so and then on and on. Then again, with the business partnerships, that’s a big play for us, as well as we’re trying to do a lot and lean heavy into them. That’s gonna be a big part of my talk in Atlanta, which is just leveraging it to really get in front of their followers. Like you said, organic traffic is so down. One of the ways around that, to me, is collab posts on the feeds of other pages, it seems like those do pretty well on or on

Speaker 2 17:25
the algorithm. Yep, cool, so that makes sense. Okay, so it sounds like So, Chris, you have a strategy where you’re running, you know, we call it a boost, but essentially you’re running, like, low budget ads with the conversion target, a profile visits for very specific static testimonials of captions piranes For you to get eyeballs. You’ve been lying, relying on collaborating both with the people in the post when you’re posting and like loving on a client or doing like a talking head. And you’ve also been this another good move, collaborating with other local small businesses for the opportunity to get in front of their individuals right absolutely. And then Chris in your world, your trigger it sounds is when they follow you, right? Because you’re going to get again. Let’s call it 720, follows per week. Through these ads, you will start a conversation with anyone that follows Mike in your world. I assume you probably do followers as well, but it seems that particularly the collaborations, you’re also going to DM people that like the post that your business is a part of right, correct,

Speaker 4 18:25
we’ll probably get five to 10 follows a week, based on the different avenues that we’re going on. And then I just try to just do at least 20 a week

Speaker 2 18:33
of DMS, got it, got it. And then if you can talk us through a little bit throughput here, Chris, you had mentioned again, kind of 5% throughput, like one out of 20 in general are making into a consultation, and then you have maybe, you said, sometimes even 10% if it’s a new location, and you’re having people follow the new location. One quick question there, Chris, before I kick it back over for your numbers. Mike, now that’s the consultation, but consultations obviously don’t always result in throughput. You have to particularly your model. I believe there’s a low bear offer. Then into the member. The membership. Do you have a sense of, given your numbers, I’m sure you can probably do this math. So what does that mean in practice, for actual DMS that get into members? If it’s 5% in general, in practice, does that mean we’re looking at, like maybe 3% actually make it into membership?

Speaker 3 19:19
Yeah, like our consultation at LBO, percentage is about 80% once they get in the door, so it’s a high likelihood they’re going to convert,

Speaker 2 19:26
but not guaranteed. Yep. Okay, so yeah. So this, and this is interesting too, because it’s actually not that far off, right? Because you wind up being like three to 4% so it’s not one out of the terrifying 75 which you were like No, or one out of 100 you hear generally you’re like one out of 25 one out of 33 are making into membership. Mike, on your end, again, I know you’ve done well with this too. So it sounds like you’re doing about 20 of these opens per week. Do you have a sense of how many of them get into the next step and or get all the way into membership?

Speaker 4 19:59
Yeah. So while you guys are talking about pulling my numbers up, so one to two, I would say, on average, you call one and a half if you want, but one to two consults booked per week from that, our lead, which I’ll count this as a lead, lead to member percentage, is 33% right now and then, are showing up to a consult and purchasing either a LBO or going right to membership is 80% so probably similarly, where Chris is at in terms of those numbers?

Speaker 2 20:25
20. Sorry, Mike, I misunderstood, maybe. So this is you said that specifically for DM leads, or just leads in general, leads in general,

Speaker 4 20:33
I don’t have it right in front of me where, like the DM leads to conversion is, but based on our lead to conversion as a whole, it’s about 30, 3% right now from lead to member God, and I would count this as a lead once they if they respond back, I would say, now it’s a lead. I would just say a follow.

Speaker 2 20:48
But yeah, because then you said about, like, how many, and this is where we’re guesstimating, and I’d love to know that specific numbers go back in tracking. As you all know, one of my sticks is, we have a lot of anchoring around, but we feel like it’s happening. But you had, do you have a sense of like, how many actual members you get from DMS

Speaker 4 21:05
per month? Not off the top of my head, I would again ceilings, but I can’t imagine it’s much different than our normal numbers, mainly because the leads we’re getting from this are pretty warm. If it was a colder leader, if I was doing colder outreach, I feel like it would probably be lower, but the amount of times where somebody is following because their friend is in and they’ve heard about us already, and they’ve talked to their friend about us, and this was just the nudge, I feel like probably lines up similar to our regular lead to member conversion, but I can probably go back and do some backtracking and find that number for you after this, yeah, and It’s and

Speaker 2 21:41
again, I’m harping on this for everyone listening, because you’ll have to do the math of your own percentages. Because I think if I remember, you originally said you’re getting maybe, like, one to two members per month out of this, which, again, makes sense. So that’s 80 outreaches, one to two members. And I realize I’m rounding everything that could be one out of 40, which, again, is like in this kind of world where we’re living in, where you know if the amount of effort you’re using is commensurate with the results, it could make sense. I think another pro tip for people listening, if you’re going to start doing this, I would say this again, this is not my favorite strategy, because we’ve made clear, even though I think it can work and if you’re going to do it, I think a lot of the game is just getting a text replace game where you have your first open, you press a button so you’re not typing out things individually, because then this you can, if you get really good at this, it doesn’t need to take like that long. You can really not automate it, but it’s so fast to send out the messages. And then, since there’s only gonna be a few responses, you create some audit like text replace versions of the most common responses you’re gonna make. And then that just winds up saving you so much time. Because I think that’s the other thing too. Is we care. This is an interesting distinction that’s coming to me now. We probably actually don’t even care about the percentage of the conversations that get into memberships. We care about how much time did you spend in seconds, and how many actually went into memberships, right? Because if you can do 50 opens in the time somebody else does five, those are probably equitable, right? So it’s not really about, oh, I don’t want to do too many. Conversations. Don’t go anywhere. What we’re saying is we don’t want to spend time on things. We don’t want to spend time on a channel that could be better spent getting better returns with the other things we might do with our limited time. I know we’re speaking of time starting to bump this up here too. I have maybe one final qualification. Then I have maybe one final question for you all. The final qualification, again, for people listening, is, yeah, the reality is, as an example, like a friend of the show, James, James Pratt, who you gentlemen both know some listeners might have heard of very successful, absolute killer gym owner. He and I were talking about this too, and they did this very intense. Very intensively for three months, and really very tracked it. And again, for what it’s worth, he got the place where he was like, this is unequivocally not a good use of time, because he just tracked the amount of time and effort it took. And that will lead to my last question a moment, because he they were having to do on their team a massive amount of a follow up just to keep shaking lead fruit through the lead tree. And that might be, I almost wonder if that’s maybe victim of their success. If you have a larger brand with more followers and a lot more bandwidth and less qualified people coming in, it’s probably harder, in some ways, frankly, than if you have a lower total lead flow and a smaller number of people that are engaging, people that are more tightly targeted. Again, I can’t speak to the exact dynamics there. That’s sort of me wondering aloud, but I guess I would circle back to YouTube. Maybe one final question is, so we have the open? Maybe, if you each can share with me, what is the open? What is the first all important matchup question you ask? Because the only thing we sell is the next step, what that’s selling them to response, and then from there. I’m just curious to understand if and if and what sort of follow up sequences you have, because I suspect you might be like, I open, and if they don’t respond, I move on with my life. Or the people that are very intense about this sometimes will schedule three to five. God love you if you follow with love and respect. Dan Martel on Instagram, his account is going to eat, is going to DM you every twice a week for forever to try to sell you into a high ticket, something. God love them. So Chris, maybe you go first. What’s your open? What’s your follow up? If any? Yeah, the

Speaker 3 25:04
open is always just hey, thanks for following. SSP, How’d you hear about us? A very open ended question. If we don’t hear in a couple days, we have a series of questions, and we allow the people doing this to pick which question makes the most sense. It’s some variation of hey, just following up. We’d love to hear more about your fitness routine. What are you currently doing at a gym? Or, again, some other kind of open ended question. We do that three to four times every couple days, just to follow up. If we don’t hear back, we just let it go. Yep, so yeah, again, not a ton of time. But those are the all open ended questions. So sounds okay. And then

Speaker 2 25:35
this is interesting too, because traditional sell by chat wisdom is close ended questions, right? Traditional sell by chat wisdom is you always say this or that, because people are busy. People are busy. The archetypal one is you just hear for the content or something else, or you want to, yeah, interested in a gym, right, where they’re just like this or this. Now, again, not wrong necessarily, obviously, but interesting to hear that’s a little bit of a different stance than the usual approach. And then what I’m hearing is it sounds like there’s the open and then maybe three follow ups. So maybe it’s like a two week window with four touches, and at that point we let him go Brandis. How about you? What’s your open? What’s your follow up? If any?

Speaker 4 26:10
Yep, open is pretty similar. It’s just, how did you hear about us? If they don’t answer, and I’ll say that we do this twice a week, going back to what you were saying in terms of time, yeah. Text replacement. I just type igdm And it just, it goes. I’ll also just say, too, you could link this to any go high level account, so kilo or grow, so we have it where, like, then sucks into Grow, yep, upon a response. And we could follow up there. And then, who’s ever running the Grow lead follow up is just a part of their day to day, right? Yep, if they don’t respond, we just do one, one follow up of just, Hey, just wanted to check back in. Let me know when you have a chance. Thanks. That’s it. If they do respond, I literally just run the playbook. It’s that question of just, are you following because you have a specific goal in mind, or just a general health content, yeah. And then usually specific goal, and they’ll go on about that. And then we follow that trail down until we got into the

Speaker 2 27:00
console, yep, yep, that’ll make sense. And as we bring this to close, before it’s worth we are sponsored by business for unicorns. And if you want it’s the specific playbook Mike mentioned, membership does have its privileges. Go, dot business, unicorns.com/brainstorm, the final thing I’ll say about this, that for me, just makes this such an interesting kind of unique strategy, is you two probably heard I often think about in marketing, you have fishing nets and you have fishing poles, right? We need resources for the prospect to find you when they’re looking for you, which is usually going to be like digital search and friends knowing what to say if a friend asks. Then there’s things that Jim does proactively to go out there and find the leads that didn’t previously even know you exist. And these are things like time sensitive referral Offerors paid meta ads, right? Which show up in the feed. Could be local business partnerships, or the local business partnership puts you in front of their clients. Instagram is such a unique kind of animal, I think if you had to press it’s a weird hybrid, right? Because these are people that have given some indication of interest, but it’s certainly not like a hot lead in the way that somebody gives you name, number and email on a page that says, sign up for a free intro. That’s like a very hot lead, right? That’s a very particular kind of indicator of interest somebody that follows you. It’s it’s like passive but at the same time, they’re also not a complete stranger. By them following your locally branded small business, it’s reasonable to assume that they might have some interest in local fitness things. And to that end, yeah, I think if you get the efficiency down, if you use other go high level, if you use text replace, if you get a script that doesn’t require much thought, it seems like there still is a case here in 2026 for gentlemen like Mike and Chris to still get results with sell by chat. All right, any final thoughts, gentlemen, before we send you off your day? And yes,

Speaker 4 28:47
use this also. Yes, Chris was like, I’m out doing no at the end. What you were just saying here is, even if this doesn’t land on anything, our last ditch effort at the end is just, hey, like, we don’t do a ton of promo education on our email list, if you’d love, I could add you to it. And the amount of people who might not be interested in

Unknown Speaker 29:04
the console, but then, why interesting?

Speaker 4 29:06
Huge. And then they’re on our automations. And who knows, I’m not tracking this, but how many people we got from there on our email list, and within a year, might have signed up

Speaker 2 29:15
for console, because then, of course, now they’re getting like the never been client offers, which in our community, we’re gonna run every 30 to 45 days, which I think speaks to Chris’s candy point before attribution really matters. I think when you become sophisticated, you need to start to understand like total leads is that’s better than nothing. So depending on your listening, just track total leads. I’ll be very appreciative. I’ll give you dopamine cookie. But a certain point, it’s where is the leads coming from, and then, importantly, where the members coming from. Because even if you know lead breakdown, if you find one channel is getting you tons of leads and they never sign up, that’s an issue. But then you grow to even an adult marker, and you start to understand that ultimately, all of these things intersect. Attribution is never going to be perfect. To Chris’s point, the person that didn’t click on your meta ad might have gone and Googled the person. Person that might have ignored Mike in the DMS might have separately gone and opted in from some other thing, or maybe they got a business partnership, offered to win a free month they said, Oh yeah, that was that friendly guy on Instagram I ignored. So at any rate, you are as a listener. You know your business, you know your life. I think my one request, as always, is to really be canny about analyzing time, energy, money, really track the results so you know how things are going. And as always, if we can help you out, you know where to find us. Thanks. Chris, thanks. Mike, thanks. Thanks. Goodbye. Listeners. You