If You’re Not Collecting Client Feedback, You’re Flying Blind with Ben Pickard

[00:00:00] [00:00:01] Hello, my [00:00:02] friend. On today’s episode, [00:00:03] I’m back with Ben [00:00:04] Pickard and we’re [00:00:05] diving into a topic that [00:00:06] every gym [00:00:07] owner needs to [00:00:08] master, which is [00:00:09] how to [00:00:10] collect and use [00:00:11] client [00:00:12] feedback effectively. [00:00:13] We cover different [00:00:14] ways to collect [00:00:15] for and ask for feedback [00:00:16] without making it [00:00:17] awkward. How to [00:00:18] actually do something useful [00:00:19] with that feedback once [00:00:20] you get it, [00:00:21] and how to build a [00:00:22] thicker skin along the [00:00:23] way so you don’t [00:00:24] take every [00:00:25] comment.

[00:00:26] Personally. So [00:00:27] if you ever wondered how to [00:00:28] get more Google reviews [00:00:29] or respond, construct [00:00:30] constructively [00:00:31] to criticism, [00:00:32] this episode is [00:00:33] packed with practical [00:00:34] strategies for [00:00:35] you. Before we [00:00:36] jump into today’s [00:00:37] conversation, I wanna let you [00:00:38] know about a free tool we [00:00:39] have for you. It’s [00:00:40] called the Ultimate [00:00:41] Gym Owner Report Card, [00:00:42] and if you’ve listened to this podcast [00:00:43] before, I’ve [00:00:44] mentioned it before.

[00:00:45] If you’re a gym owner with [00:00:46] 30 or more clients, [00:00:47] this tool helps you [00:00:48] get clear [00:00:49] on where your [00:00:50] business is crushing it [00:00:51] and where your [00:00:52] systems might need [00:00:53] some work. It [00:00:54] takes less than 10 [00:00:55] minutes, and it’s a great way to [00:00:56] identify what to [00:00:57] focus on [00:00:58] next. You’ll find the [00:00:59] link down on the show notes [00:01:00] below, so click it, [00:01:01] download it, [00:01:02] and start using it [00:01:03] today.

It’s free [00:01:04] and it’s yours. [00:01:05] Alright, let’s get [00:01:06] into today’s episode.[00:01:07] [00:01:08] [00:01:09] [00:01:10]

1, [00:01:11] 2, 3, [00:01:12] 4. [00:01:13] Welcome [00:01:14] to The Business for [00:01:15] Unicorns podcast, [00:01:16] where we help gym and [00:01:17] studio owners [00:01:18] create a business [00:01:19] and a life they [00:01:20] love. I’m your [00:01:21] host, Michael Keeler. [00:01:22] Join me and the [00:01:23] business unicorns [00:01:24] team each week [00:01:25] for actionable [00:01:26] advice, expert [00:01:27] insights, and the [00:01:28] inside scoop [00:01:29] on what it really [00:01:30] takes to level up your [00:01:31] gym.

Get [00:01:32] ready to unlock your [00:01:33] potential and become a [00:01:34] real unicorn [00:01:35] in the fitness [00:01:36] industry.[00:01:37] [00:01:38] [00:01:39] [00:01:40] [00:01:41] [00:01:42] [00:01:43]

Yeah. [00:01:44] Hello, [00:01:45] fitness business nerds. [00:01:46] What’s up? Welcome [00:01:47] to another episode [00:01:48] of the Business Unicorns [00:01:49] podcast. [00:01:50] I’m here today with my [00:01:51] man, Ben. What’s up, [00:01:52] my friend? [00:01:53] Not much, Michael. How you [00:01:54] doing? I’m doing great. [00:01:55] I’m doing great. I [00:01:56] know we’ve talked before [00:01:57] about you being a [00:01:58] very outdoorsy man [00:01:59] and this past [00:02:00] weekend you’ve done even [00:02:01] more outdoorsy things you [00:02:02] wanna tell people about your [00:02:03] tractor.

Is that what it’s called? [00:02:04] [00:02:05] Excavator excavator. [00:02:06] See, I’m already behind [00:02:07] the ball here. Yeah, so [00:02:08] we, the [00:02:09] short version of this is a [00:02:10] few years ago, [00:02:11] us and some friends [00:02:12] bought a 200 acre [00:02:13] property four hours [00:02:14] north of where I live. [00:02:15] It’s near [00:02:16] Sunridge or Algonquin [00:02:17] Park for the Canadians who are [00:02:18] listing. [00:02:19] And the plan is to [00:02:20] expand.

It’s got a shitty old [00:02:21] cabin on it, but it’s great [00:02:22] property. So we wanna [00:02:23] expand the cabin so we. [00:02:24] Bought a [00:02:25] sawmill and it’s all [00:02:26] forest. So [00:02:27] anyways, to do this, [00:02:28] we bought an [00:02:29] excavator, an old [00:02:30] used one, that it [00:02:31] was a good fit for our [00:02:32] budget and needs. [00:02:33] Yeah. And [00:02:34] this past [00:02:35] weekend we finally [00:02:36] got it [00:02:37] and did a whole bunch [00:02:38] of work with it and [00:02:39] cleared [00:02:40] some bush to [00:02:41] have an [00:02:42] area to start prepping [00:02:43] to do the work we wanna [00:02:44] do.

And it was, I’ve [00:02:45] never driven an excavator [00:02:46] before. That’s amazing. [00:02:47] Friend has, [00:02:48] he owned a construction [00:02:49] company. [00:02:50] And I’ve just [00:02:51] basically spent the [00:02:52] time outside [00:02:53] cutting [00:02:54] trees, moving dirt, [00:02:55] smelling [00:02:56] diesel [00:02:57] fumes, [00:02:58] planning for the future. It [00:02:59] was fantastic. [00:03:00] That’s so [00:03:01] cool. I can’t [00:03:02] imagine driving around a big [00:03:03] excavator and [00:03:04] just being able to clear a [00:03:05] land like that just [00:03:06] sounds, it feels like, gives much [00:03:07] power in your hands with a [00:03:08] hydraulic machine like [00:03:09] that.

It was [00:03:10] honestly terrifying. How [00:03:11] powerful. This thing, no [00:03:12] joke I was telling you [00:03:13] earlier. Six to [00:03:14] eight inch diameter tree. [00:03:15] That’s. [00:03:16] 50 feet tall. [00:03:17] Yeah, you just push [00:03:18] it over. Just push it [00:03:19] over. That’s [00:03:20] so wild. Need [00:03:21] to move a rock. This [00:03:22] half the size of a car. [00:03:23] No [00:03:24] big deal. No big [00:03:25] deal. Wow. [00:03:26] That’s wild. I’m [00:03:27] always just so impressed by [00:03:28] your outdoor adventures.

[00:03:29] ’cause I’m just, I [00:03:30] was impressed by two weeks [00:03:31] ago I [00:03:32] added some, some like [00:03:33] watering [00:03:34] tubing to my [00:03:35] deck plants [00:03:36] and I thought I did [00:03:37] some irrigation, [00:03:38] some automatic [00:03:39] irrigation to my deck plants and I [00:03:40] was like, you know what? I’m. [00:03:41] Freaking outdoorsy. [00:03:42] But then Ben’s, you know [00:03:43] what? I got on my [00:03:44] excavator and [00:03:45] cleared two acres of [00:03:46] land.

And I’m like, [00:03:47] damn, [00:03:48] I really, I really, [00:03:49] I don’t belong in this [00:03:50] conversation. Um, I [00:03:51] don’t have expertise in it. [00:03:52] I just have a willingness to [00:03:53] learn. I might follow up [00:03:54] separately about [00:03:55] irrigation ’cause I like dance, but. [00:03:56] [00:03:57] Poor watering them. So [00:03:58] that actually sounds right at my alley. [00:03:59] Oh yeah. I’ll tell you all [00:04:00] about it.

We’ll circle back. [00:04:01] Let’s dive into today’s [00:04:02] conversation. So today [00:04:03] what we wanted to talk about [00:04:04] is actually [00:04:05] client feedback. [00:04:06] One of the things that’s [00:04:07] been a real [00:04:08] pillar, both at [00:04:09] Mark Fisher Fitness and Business [00:04:10] Unicorns, I know this has been [00:04:11] true for your [00:04:12] Jim Ben, [00:04:13] is we [00:04:14] all have really had [00:04:15] an approach. [00:04:16] To client [00:04:17] feedback in, [00:04:18] in.

And that approach [00:04:19] is client [00:04:20] feedback is essential, [00:04:21] like getting [00:04:22] feedback from their clients at the [00:04:23] gym, [00:04:24] learning how to [00:04:25] process that [00:04:26] feedback, how to ask for [00:04:27] it at the right times in the [00:04:28] right ways. [00:04:29] Use the data from [00:04:30] that feedback to make [00:04:31] improvements [00:04:32] is just [00:04:33] such a critical part [00:04:34] of being a [00:04:35] leader of your [00:04:36] business and of your gym.[00:04:37]

And so I wanted to just [00:04:38] break down today [00:04:39] the reasons why. [00:04:40] Collecting [00:04:41] and using [00:04:42] client feedback is so [00:04:43] important and we want [00:04:44] to break down all the [00:04:45] ways we’ve done it that we [00:04:46] felt have been [00:04:47] successful. So let’s just [00:04:48] start, Ben, with you, just sharing a [00:04:49] little bit of what’s your [00:04:50] experience been like in running your [00:04:51] gym in terms of [00:04:52] how and when you [00:04:53] collect client [00:04:54] feedback.[00:04:55]

I wanna [00:04:56] start by saying I used to be [00:04:57] terrified of getting [00:04:58] feedback. Yeah. [00:04:59] [00:05:00] So I’d [00:05:01] say in the early [00:05:02] years of us [00:05:03] starting the gym, [00:05:04] like I’d ask, Hey, how’s [00:05:05] this exercise [00:05:06] feeling? I wasn’t completely [00:05:07] oblivious, [00:05:08] but I didn’t have any like [00:05:09] structured client feedback [00:05:10] systems because [00:05:11] honestly, I was really nervous [00:05:12] that I was not doing a [00:05:13] good enough job or [00:05:14] delivering at the standard I [00:05:15] wanted to, and I like [00:05:16] didn’t want [00:05:17] to.[00:05:18]

I didn’t wanna make my [00:05:19] gap, the gaps in my game. [00:05:20] Obvious. I’m not sure. I’m [00:05:21] trying to think of how I [00:05:22] emotionally [00:05:23] connected to feedback eight [00:05:24] years ago. [00:05:25] Since then, [00:05:26] I’ve evolved my [00:05:27] thinking. Thankfully, [00:05:28] there’s two [00:05:29] main ways that we [00:05:30] collect, or three main ways we [00:05:31] collect client feedback. [00:05:32] One is through [00:05:33] soliciting Google [00:05:34] reviews as most [00:05:35] gyms do, but [00:05:36] the good ones and the bad [00:05:37] ones tell you a lot.

It’s not [00:05:38] just, yes, we got a good [00:05:39] five star review. There can [00:05:40] be a lot of value in [00:05:41] digging into [00:05:42] why did they [00:05:43] give us a five star review. [00:05:44] Some people say more, [00:05:45] some people say less. [00:05:46] Your mileage may vary. [00:05:47] The second [00:05:48] piece is just informal [00:05:49] feedback. I actually did an [00:05:50] in-service for my [00:05:51] team about this [00:05:52] last week about making [00:05:53] sure at the end of each phase [00:05:54] of programming, we [00:05:55] ask for what they wanna see [00:05:56] more of, what they wanna see [00:05:57] less of.

It’s a [00:05:58] version of best next time that [00:05:59] we ask the client. [00:06:00] So I consider [00:06:01] that kind of informal [00:06:02] feedback where it’s just a [00:06:03] conversation about how are you [00:06:04] liking things? How’s this [00:06:05] feeling? Yep. [00:06:06] Beyond just like how [00:06:07] was the squat versus the [00:06:08] lunge? And [00:06:09] then the most structured [00:06:10] way we collect client [00:06:11] feedback is with a quarterly [00:06:12] member feedback survey.[00:06:13]

And we’ll [00:06:14] adjust the [00:06:15] questions [00:06:16] periodically. It’s not like they change every [00:06:17] quarter. We do wanna see [00:06:18] consistency. We can see [00:06:19] if we can improve, [00:06:20] if cleanliness was bad, we [00:06:21] wanna ask about [00:06:22] cleanliness three months later to see if [00:06:23] they think it’s better. [00:06:24] But that would be like a more [00:06:25] formalized way of [00:06:26] gathering client feedback [00:06:27] that.

Um, [00:06:28] me and my gm. [00:06:29] GM then debrief [00:06:30] on and we do [00:06:31] a thing that I don’t [00:06:32] know. Can I [00:06:33] interrupt you for a second? Yeah. Sorry. [00:06:34] I just wanna say before we get [00:06:35] into the next step, I just [00:06:36] wanna pause at the [00:06:37] collection step [00:06:38] for a second. Yeah. And [00:06:39] say, in terms of [00:06:40] collecting, what I think I heard was like [00:06:41] three specific [00:06:42] things, right?

Which is [00:06:43] Google reviews, which might [00:06:44] come organically or might [00:06:45] push for them, but looking [00:06:46] at them and learning from them [00:06:47] is helpful, [00:06:48] more casual. [00:06:49] [00:06:50] Feedback, which is just your [00:06:51] team talking to your [00:06:52] clients on a regular [00:06:53] basis. Even someone [00:06:54] at a front desk being [00:06:55] like, how was your [00:06:56] workout today? It’s like a [00:06:57] really useful, [00:06:58] just casual way [00:06:59] of asking [00:07:00] how are things going?[00:07:01]

And training your [00:07:02] team on how and when to [00:07:03] ask whether it’s [00:07:04] during each [00:07:05] cycle of a program design [00:07:06] phase or [00:07:07] whatever the case may be, but [00:07:08] casually. [00:07:09] But intentionally [00:07:10] asking for feedback [00:07:11] in conversation. [00:07:12] And the third one was a [00:07:13] little bit more formal, which is [00:07:14] like a survey you might do [00:07:15] every quarter on a regular [00:07:16] basis.

Those [00:07:17] all make total sense to me, and [00:07:18] I think that’s a really good [00:07:19] list for our listeners to [00:07:20] start with. I’ll just add [00:07:21] one [00:07:22] more, which is I [00:07:23] do think there’s a kind [00:07:24] of [00:07:25] a [00:07:26] non-cyclical. [00:07:27] Version of getting [00:07:28] for feedback, which [00:07:29] is when you’re trying to make a [00:07:30] big decision [00:07:31] or make [00:07:32] change, you might [00:07:33] have this kind of as [00:07:34] needed [00:07:35] kind of need for [00:07:36] feedback.

So for [00:07:37] example, if you were [00:07:38] thinking about adding some [00:07:39] new class times, [00:07:40] you might do like a [00:07:41] casual poll. I. [00:07:42] In your Facebook [00:07:43] group, or you’re thinking [00:07:44] about opening a new [00:07:45] location, you might [00:07:46] do like a survey to [00:07:47] your whole email list [00:07:48] about where they live [00:07:49] or where they might be willing to [00:07:50] travel to [00:07:51] or get [00:07:52] complaints about the music.

You [00:07:53] might do a [00:07:54] survey about what kind of [00:07:55] music do you want, right? So [00:07:56] there might be a [00:07:57] moment to collect [00:07:58] feedback. At [00:07:59] like key decision [00:08:00] points, both [00:08:01] small scale decisions, like [00:08:02] what music should we be playing [00:08:03] more of and big [00:08:04] scale ones like where [00:08:05] should we open another [00:08:06] location or that [00:08:07] kind of thing. And so I just [00:08:08] wanna add that that last [00:08:09] category, which is [00:08:10] sometimes feedback [00:08:11] is you only need in [00:08:12] certain moments [00:08:13] when you’re at certain [00:08:14] decision points or pivot [00:08:15] points and more [00:08:16] data is [00:08:17] helpful.

I think it’s [00:08:18] also a good moment to turn to your [00:08:19] clients, Hey, [00:08:20] we’re unclear about our [00:08:21] client avatar. [00:08:22] Cool. Go [00:08:23] interview a bunch of your [00:08:24] clients. Go [00:08:25] survey a bunch of your clients. [00:08:26] Yeah, get more data [00:08:27] about that if you’re [00:08:28] not sure how to [00:08:29] adjust your marketing. [00:08:30] I just wanted to add that one [00:08:31] more, but let’s pivot [00:08:32] and talk about.[00:08:33]

Once you [00:08:34] get data like this [00:08:35] formally, [00:08:36] informally, any of the [00:08:37] ways we talked about, [00:08:38] a lot of the [00:08:39] people’s hesitation about [00:08:40] getting it is they don’t have to [00:08:41] do with it once they [00:08:42] got it right. And all [00:08:43] that anxiety you [00:08:44] described, which is I think [00:08:45] very normal for a lot [00:08:46] of gym owners [00:08:47] is I don’t wanna see it.[00:08:48]

And so how [00:08:49] do you bring yourself [00:08:50] to look at it and [00:08:51] analyze it in a way [00:08:52] that’s useful? [00:08:53] Yeah, that’s [00:08:54] a great question. [00:08:55] I wanna, [00:08:56] there’s probably a, a [00:08:57] better reason [00:08:58] than this that you could [00:08:59] explain more academically [00:09:00] than I could. But [00:09:01] some of just [00:09:02] numbing myself [00:09:03] to some, sometimes [00:09:04] very [00:09:05] mean [00:09:06] or hurtful. Yeah.

Not [00:09:07] like they intended to be mean, [00:09:08] but the impact on me was [00:09:09] hurtful. [00:09:10] Feedback is you just [00:09:11] get your reps in [00:09:12] there, you just have to [00:09:13] see people that. [00:09:14] Don’t like [00:09:15] the thing enough [00:09:16] times, they’re like, yeah, it’s [00:09:17] okay. Not everyone’s gonna like [00:09:18] it. It doesn’t mean I [00:09:19] don’t care. It just [00:09:20] means that I’ve got a little bit [00:09:21] more of a thicker [00:09:22] skin is the best way to put it.[00:09:23]

Yeah. I think just to [00:09:24] pause there for a second and say, [00:09:25] I think this idea of [00:09:26] a thicker skin, [00:09:27] I don’t think I know [00:09:28] it’s like a real [00:09:29] phenomenon, right? [00:09:30] And in many [00:09:31] cases we think of this [00:09:32] in like clinical [00:09:33] therapy. There’s a thing [00:09:34] called exposure [00:09:35] therapy, right? The [00:09:36] most basic example for [00:09:37] this is you’re afraid of [00:09:38] spiders.

One of the ways [00:09:39] to get unafraid of [00:09:40] spiders is slowly. [00:09:41] Getting you [00:09:42] closer and closer to [00:09:43] spiders, [00:09:44] it’s exposure therapy. [00:09:45] You put a spider [00:09:46] in the next room next [00:09:47] to you, or you think about a [00:09:48] spider and then you have one [00:09:49] in a room far [00:09:50] away and it gets closer [00:09:51] and closer. And [00:09:52] over time you [00:09:53] learn to manage your [00:09:54] reaction to [00:09:55] that.

You learn [00:09:56] to get less [00:09:57] scared. And I use that as an [00:09:58] example. ’cause I’m. [00:09:59] Terrified of [00:10:00] spiders and the idea [00:10:01] of exposure therapy in [00:10:02] spiders actually [00:10:03] makes me sweat. But [00:10:04] it’s a real thing. It’s a real [00:10:05] phenomenon that the more you [00:10:06] expose yourself to that [00:10:07] thing that upsets you, the [00:10:08] more you can [00:10:09] regulate your emotions and your [00:10:10] response [00:10:11] and feedback’s the same [00:10:12] way.

You can [00:10:13] absolutely develop this [00:10:14] quote thicker skin, [00:10:15] which is really just [00:10:16] your ability to cope [00:10:17] with this negative [00:10:18] feeling [00:10:19] arising. And over time [00:10:20] it’ll feel less and less [00:10:21] negative ’cause you get more [00:10:22] and more used to it. [00:10:23] And so I just wanna [00:10:24] pause and say that’s a [00:10:25] real thing, right? [00:10:26] You can [00:10:27] actually intentionally.[00:10:28]

[00:10:29] Develop a thicker skin when it [00:10:30] comes to negative [00:10:31] feedback, and [00:10:32] most people like [00:10:33] yourself, like Mr. Mark [00:10:34] Fisher, who also [00:10:35] like you and many [00:10:36] others, [00:10:37] struggle with [00:10:38] feedback at first and got rid, [00:10:39] got used to it, myself [00:10:40] included, many [00:10:41] years ago. Just [00:10:42] gotten more and more used to [00:10:43] it. So I think it’s a, [00:10:44] it’s an important piece of [00:10:45] it, and it’s not [00:10:46] swallowing or [00:10:47] pushing it down or [00:10:48] avoiding those feelings.[00:10:49]

It’s actually leaning [00:10:50] into the fact that you [00:10:51] can train yourself to have a [00:10:52] different response. [00:10:53] Yeah, so [00:10:54] I, beautiful. [00:10:55] Thank you for [00:10:56] validating that. So yeah, [00:10:57] I just subjected [00:10:58] myself to [00:10:59] self-imposed exposure therapy when [00:11:00] it came to feedback. Yeah. [00:11:01] Via [00:11:02] just getting more [00:11:03] of it. Yeah. [00:11:04] So then to [00:11:05] get to your actual question [00:11:06] of what do we do with [00:11:07] that?

I, yeah. [00:11:08] The filters [00:11:09] like, [00:11:10] lemme start, let me back [00:11:11] up a little bit. You have [00:11:12] taught me, I’m pretty sure it was, [00:11:13] you taught me that the [00:11:14] only right answer to [00:11:15] receiving feedback is [00:11:16] saying thank you for the [00:11:17] feedback. That is always the first [00:11:18] step. [00:11:19] Now, if you do a. [00:11:20] Formalized [00:11:21] feedback survey, [00:11:22] you’ll typically get [00:11:23] better feedback when it’s [00:11:24] anonymous ’cause people [00:11:25] aren’t worried that it’s gonna [00:11:26] reflect on them.

So you don’t [00:11:27] always have the opportunity [00:11:28] to like [00:11:29] directly thank each individual [00:11:30] for the feedback. Or if you’re [00:11:31] like a [00:11:32] multi-location, much larger [00:11:33] gym, you might not be able to send [00:11:34] out a thousand texts and [00:11:35] say thank you for the [00:11:36] personalized feedback. [00:11:37] [00:11:38] But it’s when you [00:11:39] possible thank people. [00:11:40] So even if that is [00:11:41] just a broadcast email [00:11:42] to your members, it’s, thank [00:11:43] you for everyone who did this.

We [00:11:44] use this to do these [00:11:45] things. You can still let them [00:11:46] know that the feedback isn’t [00:11:47] going unanswered. There’s [00:11:48] nothing worse than doing a feedback [00:11:49] survey, and then [00:11:50] nothing comes of it. I’m like, [00:11:51] I’m not even gonna do this [00:11:52] anymore. My bank doesn’t care what [00:11:53] I think. [00:11:54] Yep. So step [00:11:55] one is, if possible, thank [00:11:56] them in whatever way you [00:11:57] can.

[00:11:58] Hey there, business [00:11:59] Unicorns podcast listeners. [00:12:00] I’m just making [00:12:01] absolutely sure you have [00:12:02] already gotten your [00:12:03] free, [00:12:04] instantly [00:12:05] downloadable copy of my new [00:12:06] book, the Little [00:12:07] Book of Gym [00:12:08] Marketing Secrets. You can [00:12:09] find a link to [00:12:10] download it in the show [00:12:11] notes, or you can go to gym [00:12:12] marketing secrets [00:12:13] book.com. I [00:12:14] worked super hard to make [00:12:15] sure this is a less [00:12:16] than 30 minute read [00:12:17] and is a [00:12:18] comprehensive overview of [00:12:19] all the things you need [00:12:20] to do.

To grow [00:12:21] your gym, get [00:12:22] more leads, more [00:12:23] clients, importantly, [00:12:24] change more [00:12:25] lives. Again, find the link in [00:12:26] the show notes where you can [00:12:27] download your free copy [00:12:28] at gym marketing [00:12:29] secrets [00:12:30] book.com. And [00:12:31] now back to the [00:12:32] podcast. [00:12:33] Step two [00:12:34] is looking at, [00:12:35] is this [00:12:36] feedback true? [00:12:37] [00:12:38] Because it’s possible [00:12:39] that people are giving [00:12:40] feedback.

[00:12:41] That’s, [00:12:42] let’s say [00:12:43] somebody signed up at my [00:12:44] gym and one of their [00:12:45] pieces of feedback right [00:12:46] off the bat was, [00:12:47] I know that this place [00:12:48] doesn’t have five [00:12:49] saunas. [00:12:50] So it’s [00:12:51] true to [00:12:52] them that they [00:12:53] apparently would [00:12:54] prefer to have five [00:12:55] saunas, [00:12:56] but we never [00:12:57] promised saunas as [00:12:58] part of the value [00:12:59] proposition. So that’s [00:13:00] feedback that is not [00:13:01] really gonna do a whole lot [00:13:02] with, I might talk to that [00:13:03] person if I have their name, [00:13:04] but that it’s [00:13:05] not really valid because it’s [00:13:06] not really a thing that [00:13:07] we are looking to get [00:13:08] better at ’cause we don’t [00:13:09] have that thing [00:13:10] or I don’t [00:13:11] like that they’re not 24 [00:13:12] 7.

If you didn’t promise [00:13:13] people 24 7 [00:13:14] access, like that’s just fine. [00:13:15] [00:13:16] Yeah. [00:13:17] Can I offer maybe, [00:13:18] because I agree with you, I think [00:13:19] this, the next thing you do [00:13:20] as you sort through the data [00:13:21] is [00:13:22] maybe not and decide what’s [00:13:23] true or not, because I [00:13:24] think you made this great point, [00:13:25] which is it’s true for [00:13:26] them that this is a pain point.[00:13:27]

Yes, it’s [00:13:28] true for them that they want [00:13:29] you to be open 24 7, [00:13:30] whether you ever promise [00:13:31] that or not. So like [00:13:32] the, I think, but I think [00:13:33] that the way I might [00:13:34] frame this is [00:13:35] decide what’s [00:13:36] actionable or not. [00:13:37] Yeah, it’s [00:13:38] right, right. Because I think that’s what you’re [00:13:39] saying here, which is that might [00:13:40] be true for you, right?

[00:13:41] So we’re not just [00:13:42] determining capital [00:13:43] T truth, we’re [00:13:44] determining like, I’m not [00:13:45] acting on that. We [00:13:46] never promised that. That’s [00:13:47] not our part of our [00:13:48] plan. We [00:13:49] don’t even have a [00:13:50] sauna, let alone five [00:13:51] saunas. It’s just not [00:13:52] actionable for me. But [00:13:53] it is good information [00:13:54] to know. [00:13:55] Part of the reason [00:13:56] someone might not come there is [00:13:57] you might have the [00:13:58] facilities they’re looking for, [00:13:59] or part of the reason they may not [00:14:00] come there is that you don’t [00:14:01] have the hours [00:14:02] available that they want.

So it’s [00:14:03] useful [00:14:04] information, but is it [00:14:05] actionable? [00:14:06] Maybe [00:14:07] not. Does that resonate with you at [00:14:08] all? Yeah, that’s a [00:14:09] much better [00:14:10] filter. I was trying to, struggling [00:14:11] with truth versus [00:14:12] validity versus actionable. [00:14:13] And actionable is the right [00:14:14] framing for this, I think. [00:14:15] Yeah. [00:14:16] So [00:14:17] then the step after that we’ve [00:14:18] done is [00:14:19] we try to act on [00:14:20] what we can.[00:14:21]

So I want to [00:14:22] clarify that doesn’t [00:14:23] mean that we do [00:14:24] everything [00:14:25] that people [00:14:26] request. Yeah. Or that doesn’t [00:14:27] mean we do everything [00:14:28] that they don’t like [00:14:29] Sometimes it is. Yeah. [00:14:30] I’m not interested getting us on [00:14:31] at my gym right now, [00:14:32] so not happening. [00:14:33] [00:14:34] So what we’ve [00:14:35] done as a way, [00:14:36] this is simply [00:14:37] because I hate [00:14:38] when I fill out feedback [00:14:39] surveys and I don’t hear anything [00:14:40] back.

Mm-hmm. Is we [00:14:41] actually post that [00:14:42] feedback on a blog [00:14:43] post and [00:14:44] now it’s intentional. [00:14:45] If somebody says something [00:14:46] like real lashing, we’ve [00:14:47] got a little bit about that. [00:14:48] Particularly when I [00:14:49] transitioned out of managing [00:14:50] the gym to owning the [00:14:51] gym, I had a few long-term [00:14:52] clients say some very [00:14:53] hurtful things. Yeah.

I did [00:14:54] not put that on [00:14:55] publicly for all obvious reason. Yeah. [00:14:56] [00:14:57] But we’d like, we put up the [00:14:58] real feedback and we [00:14:59] only fix [00:15:00] grammatic, [00:15:01] grammatical and typos. Mm-hmm. [00:15:02] People need to run on [00:15:03] sentences and stuff. And [00:15:04] then we intentionally [00:15:05] pepper in the good [00:15:06] feedback with the bad feedback [00:15:07] so that a new member coming [00:15:08] in who sees this isn’t, [00:15:09] these people are fucking [00:15:10] terrible.

But we [00:15:11] post it there with a [00:15:12] response. [00:15:13] Yeah. And when someone’s, [00:15:14] Hey, I want you guys to [00:15:15] get a sauna. I can respond [00:15:16] and be like, Hey, totally [00:15:17] understand. [00:15:18] Here’s whatever. Here’s how [00:15:19] I feel about saunas, [00:15:20] and that’s just not [00:15:21] something we’re looking at doing right [00:15:22] now. If you’d like to chat [00:15:23] further, like I’m [00:15:24] curious with the [00:15:25] benefits that I’m [00:15:26] curious why you want a sauna, please [00:15:27] contact me directly.

They [00:15:28] never do, [00:15:29] but we still [00:15:30] respond to it. Yeah. And [00:15:31] we’ve had members [00:15:32] come up to us [00:15:33] and be like, I love that you [00:15:34] actually responded to that [00:15:35] feedback. Yeah. The number of [00:15:36] times people have asked for us to [00:15:37] get a bank of treadmills [00:15:38] in our gym, and the [00:15:39] number of times I’ve said [00:15:40] that’s. [00:15:41] Just not gonna [00:15:42] happen here due to a whole [00:15:43] bunch of reasons.

[00:15:44] Yep. At [00:15:45] least we’re giving an answer to [00:15:46] it. And then for the [00:15:47] stuff that we can improve, [00:15:48] we use that [00:15:49] in like things like [00:15:50] team meetings. So maybe [00:15:51] it’s like role-playing [00:15:52] certain things with the [00:15:53] staff. It might be stepping [00:15:54] up our cleaning [00:15:55] game. It might be [00:15:56] rearranging a bit of equipment. [00:15:57] It might be expanding [00:15:58] some of the equipment if it [00:15:59] fits our needs.[00:16:00]

It might be just [00:16:01] communicating things [00:16:02] that we thought were [00:16:03] obvious, that clearly we [00:16:04] haven’t communicated well [00:16:05] enough to all [00:16:06] the members. And by [00:16:07] tweaking our onboarding [00:16:08] process. So we try [00:16:09] to act on what we [00:16:10] can, [00:16:11] but [00:16:12] please correct me if [00:16:13] this doesn’t feel right, [00:16:14] but [00:16:15] [00:16:16] just because people have [00:16:17] feedback about it doesn’t mean we [00:16:18] have to do something.

1. [00:16:19] It’s up to a hundred [00:16:20] percent. Yeah, [00:16:21] 100%. [00:16:22] Yeah. I think, listen, I [00:16:23] think you’re dropping a lot of [00:16:24] wisdom and knowledge bombs here, [00:16:25] Ben, because I think there’s a lot [00:16:26] of things you mentioned [00:16:27] here that are super best [00:16:28] practices [00:16:29] and that one’s gotta be at the top of [00:16:30] the list, [00:16:31] right? Not all [00:16:32] feedback requires a or [00:16:33] response.[00:16:34]
2. I think aside [00:16:35] from thank you, [00:16:36] and it doesn’t, [00:16:37] not everything is actionable. [00:16:38] In fact, most [00:16:39] of the feedback you [00:16:40] get is probably not [00:16:41] actionable, [00:16:42] but I love that you do a [00:16:43] few things, right? I love [00:16:44] that you’re asking for it all the [00:16:45] ways, although you’re taking time [00:16:46] to process it with some [00:16:47] of your team, like you mentioned, [00:16:48] your GM is involved in [00:16:49] this, in [00:16:50] processing feedback.

That’s, I [00:16:51] think, really valuable. [00:16:52] I love, [00:16:53] love, love that you’re [00:16:54] responding [00:16:55] publicly to most of the [00:16:56] feedback smattering in the good [00:16:57] stuff and the [00:16:58] constructive stuff. [00:16:59] We did that as well at Mark [00:17:00] Fisher Fitness. We had [00:17:01] posted an actual [00:17:02] printing. [00:17:03] Printed version of the [00:17:04] feedback with our [00:17:05] responses around the gym so [00:17:06] people could read it as they were [00:17:07] standing around.[00:17:08]

And we [00:17:09] got such great feedback [00:17:10] about that kind of [00:17:11] transparency. And [00:17:12] they could see this is [00:17:13] the 300th [00:17:14] time, we’re answering the [00:17:15] question about why we don’t have [00:17:16] showers at this gym. [00:17:17] And so they could [00:17:18] see, like we did it, [00:17:19] we approached it with like [00:17:20] patients and sometimes [00:17:21] humor, but [00:17:22] they got to see like [00:17:23] what our thinking [00:17:24] was.

And some people still [00:17:25] didn’t like our [00:17:26] response, but they appreciated the [00:17:27] fact that we were [00:17:28] transparent and [00:17:29] consistent about our [00:17:30] thinking. And so I, I [00:17:31] love that. [00:17:32] And I think your, your last. [00:17:33] Bit of wisdom here, which is [00:17:34] not everything is [00:17:35] actionable. So sorting [00:17:36] through the feedback [00:17:37] for what can we [00:17:38] respond to and [00:17:39] validate and [00:17:40] acknowledge from our clients [00:17:41] and what do we [00:17:42] actually, what can we, [00:17:43] or what is [00:17:44] reasonable to actually [00:17:45] act on what are the things we can [00:17:46] actually do [00:17:47] differently?

And I [00:17:48] think the two kind of [00:17:49] carry characters. [00:17:50] The two [00:17:51] categories I would put [00:17:52] on the [00:17:53] actionability is some things [00:17:54] are actionable [00:17:55] now and some things [00:17:56] might be actionable later. [00:17:57] So I think we always try [00:17:58] to do our best to say, [00:17:59] Hey. [00:18:00] We actually love [00:18:01] this idea [00:18:02] and we’re ready to do something about it. [00:18:03] In fact, next [00:18:04] week you will see [00:18:05] five new treadmills, [00:18:06] right?

And in some [00:18:07] cases we said, you know what? We really [00:18:08] love this and [00:18:09] treadmills are [00:18:10] expensive, so we are [00:18:11] gonna save some money. [00:18:12] And the minute we have [00:18:13] $50,000, [00:18:14] we will put in some [00:18:15] treadmills, but don’t look for them for [00:18:16] at least the next year. [00:18:17] Right? [00:18:18] And just as [00:18:19] open and transparent as [00:18:20] we can be about [00:18:21] our logic and our [00:18:22] thinking, and [00:18:23] those clients [00:18:24] who we told, we [00:18:25] are gonna wait a year for these [00:18:26] treadmills, they were [00:18:27] happy.[00:18:28]

They were happy that [00:18:29] their comment was heard [00:18:30] and seen, and they [00:18:31] understood when they might [00:18:32] get the thing they wanted. [00:18:33] And so anyway, I [00:18:34] think you, your [00:18:35] process illustrates, I [00:18:36] think what is so [00:18:37] valuable about this [00:18:38] feedback is that [00:18:39] it creates a two-way [00:18:40] conversation with [00:18:41] you and your team and your [00:18:42] clients, where [00:18:43] you’re talking about what’s [00:18:44] working, what’s not [00:18:45] working, what do we like, what do we [00:18:46] not like?

[00:18:47] What are the parts that are [00:18:48] crushing in the business, what are the [00:18:49] parts that we think there’s room [00:18:50] for improvement in? [00:18:51] And. That is [00:18:52] so valuable, [00:18:53] right? That is so [00:18:54] valuable. We get on calls [00:18:55] all the time with gym owners who are [00:18:56] like, I don’t know what to [00:18:57] work on next my [00:18:58] business. I’m not sure what to do [00:18:59] next.

I’m not sure what to do next. [00:19:00] I’m not sure to work on. Next, [00:19:01] go ask your [00:19:02] clients. [00:19:03] Yeah, they’ll tell you what [00:19:04] to do next. [00:19:05] They’ll give you [00:19:06] more than [00:19:07] you want in [00:19:08] ideas for what to [00:19:09] do next, and not all of ’em will be [00:19:10] great. Not all [00:19:11] of ’em are actionable, [00:19:12] but they will give you [00:19:13] ideas for things that they [00:19:14] think you can and should be [00:19:15] doing better.[00:19:16]

Yeah. Yeah. [00:19:17] They’ll give you more ideas than [00:19:18] you’ll be able to act on. [00:19:19] [00:19:20] Yeah. I also [00:19:21] just wanna go back and [00:19:22] just, just give you [00:19:23] personally a high five for I [00:19:24] know how much work you’ve done [00:19:25] at developing a thicker [00:19:26] skin around [00:19:27] feedback. Okay. And being [00:19:28] proactive about it. [00:19:29] ’cause you’re doing it not only for your [00:19:30] gym, but we both do it [00:19:31] here for business unicorns as [00:19:32] well.

And I think [00:19:33] we’re very fortunate business [00:19:34] unicorns work with [00:19:35] mature. [00:19:36] Gym owners who [00:19:37] are coming at us, [00:19:38] usually with not as harsh [00:19:39] feedback as we sometimes [00:19:40] get from gym [00:19:41] clients. Yeah. Uh, but, [00:19:42] but still the fact that [00:19:43] you do it on multiple [00:19:44] fronts and you do it [00:19:45] so well, I know is [00:19:46] learned. You, you [00:19:47] practiced and worked on that.[00:19:48]

Yeah. That was not [00:19:49] innate [00:19:50] whatsoever. My, yeah. I [00:19:51] love my family [00:19:52] and the [00:19:53] way we handled [00:19:54] conflict was we [00:19:55] buried our [00:19:56] heads in the sand until it [00:19:57] had passed. So this [00:19:58] was like, this was [00:19:59] a completely [00:20:00] nurture. [00:20:01] Not [00:20:02] nature. Like I had to [00:20:03] relearn, I had to [00:20:04] unlearn habits before I could [00:20:05] fill my cup with useful [00:20:06] habits.

Yeah, [00:20:07] yeah. It was a [00:20:08] purposely developed [00:20:09] skill. Yeah. [00:20:10] Yeah. Good for you. [00:20:11] Just let leave the [00:20:12] folks with some [00:20:13] initial, the final thoughts [00:20:14] here, Ben, which is, [00:20:15] for anyone listening, that’s, you [00:20:16] know what? I’ve never done [00:20:17] any of those things. [00:20:18] I’ve never [00:20:19] really asked [00:20:20] for Google reviews. [00:20:21] I’ve never really done [00:20:22] formal or informal [00:20:23] asking or feedback.

Where [00:20:24] do people start? Where do you, what [00:20:25] do you think a good first step is [00:20:26] for folks? [00:20:27] I’ve got two [00:20:28] options, which I know isn’t helpful. [00:20:29] Great. That’s okay. [00:20:30] If you’re not asking for [00:20:31] Google reviews, you [00:20:32] absolutely should start [00:20:33] 100%. Yeah. ’cause [00:20:34] it also is going to, it’s [00:20:35] gonna give you feedback, but it’s [00:20:36] also gonna get you leads over [00:20:37] time by playing the Google [00:20:38] game on Google.

[00:20:39] So I think that’s one of [00:20:40] the foundational marketing [00:20:41] things that you should be [00:20:42] doing as a gym owner [00:20:43] or a business owner. Yeah. [00:20:44] I’ll also put like a big [00:20:45] asterisk on that is [00:20:46] that [00:20:47] strategically, of course when [00:20:48] you’re asking for Google [00:20:49] reviews, you’re stacking [00:20:50] the deck and you really are [00:20:51] asking people who you know [00:20:52] are doing.

Good [00:20:53] work and do [00:20:54] like you, so just [00:20:55] know. Yes, I agree. [00:20:56] This is absolutely a first [00:20:57] step. Go ask for reviews. [00:20:58] Just know that by [00:20:59] definition you should be [00:21:00] primarily getting praise [00:21:01] on those Google reviews. [00:21:02] When a client’s [00:21:03] pissed at you, you’re not like, you know [00:21:04] what? Don’t send me an [00:21:05] email. Go put [00:21:06] that in Google [00:21:07] Review.[00:21:08]

You post [00:21:09] your hate publicly. [00:21:10] That’d be really useful. [00:21:11] So just [00:21:12] know by definition you’re [00:21:13] gonna getting [00:21:14] feedback from them. It’s mostly praise, [00:21:15] which is great, but, [00:21:16] and start there. And. [00:21:17] [00:21:18] Ben’s [00:21:19] second suggestion will also [00:21:20] be valuable in getting more [00:21:21] critical feedback. [00:21:22] Yeah, I’m a [00:21:23] biased towards the quarterly [00:21:24] member feedback.

[00:21:25] Yes. [00:21:26] Make it five or six [00:21:27] questions. [00:21:28] All but the last [00:21:29] one are multiple [00:21:30] choice, so it doesn’t take people [00:21:31] very long [00:21:32] in the email [00:21:33] or communication you [00:21:34] use to ask them to fill it [00:21:35] out, highlight the fact [00:21:36] that it is like [00:21:37] five questions and will take [00:21:38] you. I’d [00:21:39] put in like a minute and [00:21:40] four seconds to [00:21:41] complete just as like a [00:21:42] joke.

So then people think it’s [00:21:43] oddly specific and it [00:21:44] seems to work. [00:21:45] And it’s like [00:21:46] [00:21:47] cleanliness, [00:21:48] coaching, [00:21:49] [00:21:50] overall delivery or [00:21:51] experience. [00:21:52] Yeah. [00:21:53] Anything else to add? [00:21:54] That would be a great starting [00:21:55] point [00:21:56] and scale of one [00:21:57] to five or one to [00:21:58] 10, anything [00:21:59] else to add? [00:22:00] And [00:22:01] do that as your first [00:22:02] go and send it to members and [00:22:03] just to see what it comes [00:22:04] back at.

You don’t need to get all [00:22:05] the questions Perfect. [00:22:06] You’re going to [00:22:07] delete some and add some [00:22:08] over time, [00:22:09] but that’s a great place. [00:22:10] And then when people come in with the [00:22:11] feedback. [00:22:12] Thank them for the [00:22:13] feedback. Thanks everybody for [00:22:14] doing this. We’ve never done [00:22:15] it before. [00:22:16] We always wanna [00:22:17] improve you, help us improve, [00:22:18] like people like I think.[00:22:19] [00:22:20]

In [00:22:21] my experience, everybody [00:22:22] likes the feeling of [00:22:23] collaboration. They want to feel like [00:22:24] they’re involved. [00:22:25] Yes. Even though our clients [00:22:26] probably in their [00:22:27] heart of hearts know that they [00:22:28] don’t actually get to say what [00:22:29] we do in our business. [00:22:30] Sure. The fact that we [00:22:31] solicited feedback and [00:22:32] gave a shit goes a [00:22:33] really long way.

[00:22:34] Yeah. They feel like they’re [00:22:35] contributing. We had so [00:22:36] many ninjas through [00:22:37] MF FFA over the years [00:22:38] who felt like they [00:22:39] really played a role in [00:22:40] helping build the place [00:22:41] ’cause they were awesome. [00:22:42] Often asked for their [00:22:43] opinion, and they would see [00:22:44] that their opinion and [00:22:45] their ideas would [00:22:46] get implemented from [00:22:47] time to time.

And that [00:22:48] re that, that, [00:22:49] that flow of [00:22:50] we ask you, you [00:22:51] tell us that we do [00:22:52] something about it, [00:22:53] it’s like such a powerful [00:22:54] cycle to building [00:22:55] trust and [00:22:56] long-term [00:22:57] relationships. Yeah. Yeah. So just [00:22:58] to go back and reiterate what you [00:22:59] said. It’s a [00:23:00] survey once a quarter to all [00:23:01] your clients. It’s a [00:23:02] few questions. [00:23:03] Scale of one to five, [00:23:04] how satisfied are [00:23:05] you with the cleanliness of the [00:23:06] gym, the [00:23:07] quality of the [00:23:08] instruction, the [00:23:09] energy and [00:23:10] programming, right?

Whatever it is, [00:23:11] with a final, [00:23:12] open-end question. Anything else you [00:23:13] want us to know? I [00:23:14] think that’s fantastic. It’s [00:23:15] a great place to [00:23:16] start. [00:23:17] I’ll give a bonus tip here, [00:23:18] which is some of you [00:23:19] might wanna consider [00:23:20] incentivizing your people to [00:23:21] complete it. [00:23:22] So you might wanna [00:23:23] say, Hey, for everyone who [00:23:24] fills this out, I’ll enter you [00:23:25] into a raffle to win.[00:23:26]

Something, [00:23:27] a free [00:23:28] month, a free [00:23:29] workout. A [00:23:30] Brittany, [00:23:31] I, we [00:23:32] haven’t done it yet. Brittany [00:23:33] said that she got like [00:23:34] 70% of people in her [00:23:35] gym and she’s got a million [00:23:36] members. [00:23:37] Yeah, to do the [00:23:38] thing by. They just [00:23:39] get entered in a [00:23:40] raffle to win a Yeti mug. [00:23:41] There [00:23:42] it is. [00:23:43] 50 bug a mug. [00:23:44] [00:23:45] Do that. [00:23:46] Yeah. [00:23:47] Or Stanley, [00:23:48] like people love a [00:23:49] Stanley.

Yeah. [00:23:50] But I think just enter [00:23:51] into a raffle to win something [00:23:52] and then yeah, I’ll spend three [00:23:53] minutes on it. I’ll spend two [00:23:54] minutes on it, I think. [00:23:55] So incentives can go a [00:23:56] long way here to, to [00:23:57] gathering that feedback. And it’s so [00:23:58] valuable for all the [00:23:59] reasons we mentioned here [00:24:00] today. Yeah. [00:24:01] Awesome. I think that’s great, [00:24:02] Ben.

Awesome. [00:24:03] Let’s leave it there. We can [00:24:04] keep talking about this topic for a [00:24:05] while, but I think we covered a lot of [00:24:06] our bases here. [00:24:07] Thanks as always for the great [00:24:08] conversation, Ben, [00:24:09] and I hope you listeners [00:24:10] got some good takeaways. [00:24:11] I will see you [00:24:12] all on the next one. [00:24:13] Thank you.[00:24:14] [00:24:15] [00:24:16] [00:24:17] [00:24:18] [00:24:19] [00:24:20] [00:24:21] [00:24:22] [00:24:23] [00:24:24] [00:24:25] [00:24:26] [00:24:27] [00:24:28] [00:24:29] [00:24:30] [00:24:31] [00:24:32]

Go [00:24:33] up, get up, [00:24:34] get [00:24:35] [00:24:36] up.