Should You Ban Politics in Your Gym? with Lucy Hendricks

[00:00:00] 1, 2, 3, 4. [00:00:05] Welcome to The Business for Unicorns podcast, where we help gym and [00:00:10] studio owners create a business and a life they love. I’m your host, Michael Keeler. [00:00:15] Join me and the business unicorns team each week for actionable advice, expert [00:00:20] insights, and the inside scoop on what it really takes to level up your gym.

Get ready to [00:00:25] unlock your potential and become a real unicorn in the fitness industry.[00:00:30] [00:00:35]

Hello, fitness business nerds. What’s up? Welcome to [00:00:40] another episode of the Business Unicorns podcast. I’m very excited to have today’s guest back on the podcast [00:00:45] again. I don’t know, for the third time, fourth time I lost track, it’s it’s Lucy Hendricks. Welcome back to the [00:00:50] podcast, Lucy. Thank you for having me.

So excited to have you. For folks who may be getting to know you for the [00:00:55] first time, Lucy is the co-founder of Enhancing Life Fitness, which is in Lexington, Kentucky. [00:01:00] And she’s been on the podcast many times. ’cause I always learn a lot from talking to Lucy and I’m sure today will be no exception. [00:01:05] Do you wanna just tell the people, Lucy, let’s a little, your short story.

How’d she come to be a gym owner and what’s a, [00:01:10] tell us a little bit about enhancing life. Yeah, so I own a gym in Lexington, Kentucky, and [00:01:15] we’re known for working with people in pain, or people who are very intimidated by big [00:01:20] box gyms. Mm-hmm. I was a small boutique setting and I owned, I’ve been own, [00:01:25] I’ve owned a gym for nine years now, and like most people, you [00:01:30] go into owning a gym thinking you’re gonna do great because you’re a great trainer.

Yep. [00:01:35] But then you realize the skills that are required to be a good gym owner are definitely not [00:01:40] just. Being good on the training floor, and that’s how I ended up finding you all. Yeah. So for the [00:01:45] last six years I’ve been working on all the different skills [00:01:50] outside of the training floor so I can be a better gym owner.

Yeah. That’s amazing. I think, have we been [00:01:55] officially together since 2020? I’m trying to think of when. You just think that’s the year you joined, right? Yeah, we [00:02:00] met in 2019. That’s right. That’s right. Oh my gosh. I love that. And I think that what [00:02:05] you just said, I think resonates with a lot with our listeners, which is people get into this because of the training and they think that they’re gonna be [00:02:10] successful ’cause they’re a great trainer.

And yes, you need to be good at the training. Running a gym is [00:02:15] about so much more, right? And over time we have to learn to get good at, uh, multiple skills and [00:02:20] hiring people from all those other skills. So that’s amazing. It’s been a pleasure working with you all these years, and I’m sure for [00:02:25] many more years to come, which is why I wanted to have you on today’s podcast because this is a little bit [00:02:30] of a story about how we got here.

But we were, we’re, did this idea first come up? Was it actually [00:02:35] in the Facebook group? I think it might have been in the Facebook group, but someone brought up [00:02:40] the idea of, asked the question somewhere in unicorn society about how do you handle [00:02:45] politics in the gym? And I think Lucy and I both dove in.

’cause we love this question [00:02:50] so much. We love sticky conversations, we love trying to create inclusive spaces. [00:02:55] So we wanted to tackle that initial question. And expand this conversation to be not [00:03:00] just about politics in the gym, but how do you handle people with different extreme, different perspectives, [00:03:05] preferences, ideas, identities?

How do you make your gym an inclusive space, not just on the political [00:03:10] spectrum, but on all the possible spectrums of identity and opinion that one [00:03:15] can have these days? Because I think we can all agree that just being in being a [00:03:20] gym is a little bit like being a community center. And you attract people from hopefully all different walks of life, and [00:03:25] you, if you live in a diverse place, you’re gonna attract people with diverse opinions and identities and perspectives.

[00:03:30] And many of us are not comfortable navigating those choppy waters. And so, Lucy and I just wanna share a little bit [00:03:35] of our thoughts. We’re not experts here, but certainly we have a lot of experience we can share. And so let’s just start with [00:03:40] the very first question, which I know is maybe not the most fun part of this conversation for us.

But when it comes to [00:03:45] politics, Lucy, right? Like you’re in Kentucky. I imagine it’s probably not the most diverse [00:03:50] place in terms of political perspectives, but you tell me. What’s been your experience in navigating the co, the [00:03:55] politics inside the gym? You’d be surprised how Dior diverse it is [00:04:00] here. Yeah, I probably would be.

Yeah. For me, it has shifted over the years. Because [00:04:05] one thing I think that people don’t realize is that you’re very stuck in an echo chamber. Mm-hmm. So there are times [00:04:10] right or left or in the middle, you think that most people are on your side. Sure. And you [00:04:15] think that most people think the way you think.

And that was my experience in the beginning. [00:04:20] Six, seven years ago, I wanted no Republicans in my gym. I wanted, if I found out [00:04:25] someone voted for Trump, I remember telling Dave, I don’t want them here. And he’s, we’re too broke. We’re [00:04:30] telling someone to, to leave. We need their money. Yeah. [00:04:35] And I didn’t realize how loud I was that other people were just being silent.

Mm-hmm. And [00:04:40] during COVID, when I went through a very stressful situation and I [00:04:45] learned that I was. Being too divisive and really stuck in an echo chamber. That’s when I realized, wow, [00:04:50] it’s almost 50 50 at my gym. Wow. It is a very diverse place. I had no [00:04:55] idea. I thought everybody was on my side and just the few people were on a [00:05:00] different side.

Yep. So I would say here in Lexington, it’s a very liberal town that is [00:05:05] Kentucky. Kentucky. Yep. But I would say it’s. Pretty much a 50 50 split. [00:05:10] Yeah. Yeah. That is. That is, it’s interesting to know, and I’d say, I think in New York, in Manhattan [00:05:15] specifically, and specifically in, I met Mark Fisher Fitness in Hell’s Kitchen for the 13 years.

We had that [00:05:20] location. It was an echo chamber. It was a definition. Of an echo chamber, a left echo chamber. [00:05:25] I’d be shocked to know that we had anyone who’s ever stepped foot in Mark for Sure. Fitness that voted Republican. [00:05:30] And maybe I, maybe I’m totally wrong about that. Obviously we all, I’m in the echo chamber, right?

So I have no [00:05:35] idea. I’m curious to get Mark’s opinion about that. I’m sure there are a few, I’m probably exaggerating here [00:05:40] to make a point, but, but I think the point is that even still, the point I wanted to make about that is that even though. [00:05:45] Mark Fisher Finnis was an echo chamber of leftists, ideology and politics.

We still [00:05:50] had a lot of friction. We still had a ton of political friction. ’cause we know these [00:05:55] days the difference between someone on the far left is very different than someone who’s dancing in [00:06:00] the center of our American politics. And so even that. Distance created a real friction at [00:06:05] the gym, and let’s just stay on politics for now, and then we’ll open up to maybe other kinds of difference at the [00:06:10] gym.

But when it comes to just political talk at the gym, people agreeing, disagreeing, talking about the [00:06:15] news, talking about who they voted for, like how do you handle tension when it comes up in the gym [00:06:20] on these topics. You’ll be surprised, or maybe not you, [00:06:25] but most people on the left think that people on the right are the [00:06:30] loudest and they are the ones that yell out their mm-hmm.

Their [00:06:35] opinions. Yeah. But I find that it’s the complete opposite. Sure. And I know where pretty much [00:06:40] everybody aligns and it’s the opposite. Usually the left can be loud and they [00:06:45] can say whatever they wanna say, and people on the right tend to be quiet. And not [00:06:50] say anything at all. Yeah. And so that’s usually the the culture that I have not created [00:06:55] in here.

Sure. But it’s just what happens. Yeah. What do you do when you see that those two [00:07:00] clients on the floor who are maybe disagreeing to the point that other people are uncomfortable or one person’s [00:07:05] opinion is so loud that it’s disruptive to people’s experience? Like how do you navigate those [00:07:10] sticky moments?

There’s only one time where I felt like I had to [00:07:15] intervene and it was about RFK and this is where I think it’s really in my wheelhouse, the [00:07:20] alternative health side of things. Sure. ’cause I grew up in alternative health and [00:07:25] that’s where I had to send an email to a client because they, they made a comment about [00:07:30] RFK and I acted a little bit ignorant ’cause I didn’t wanna feed into it [00:07:35] because I was agreeing with what she was saying.

Sure. And. She was being really [00:07:40] loud about it and then she was like, you know who RFK is, right [00:07:45] Lucy? I’m like, I am. I am very aware of who RFK is. Yes. And [00:07:50] I felt like if I didn’t say anything, that she would come back later on [00:07:55] to try to educate me. If you can’t be ignorant to politics, you have to know this because not [00:08:00] knowing is wrong.

So I sent out an email saying, Hey. [00:08:05] When it comes to politics or things that are very divisive, especially when it comes to alternative health, and [00:08:10] alternative health has now become political. Yeah. Talking or mocking [00:08:15] RFKs intelligence is like mocking the per people that believe in him. And we have a [00:08:20] lot of people in our gym that believe the things that he says, yep, I don’t believe in those [00:08:25] things or a lot of those things, but I understand how people got there.

Sure. And so there it was [00:08:30] my opportunity to talk about being curious and really asking ourselves how did people get [00:08:35] to those beliefs, especially. Alternative health. Sure. So when you look at their [00:08:40] history or look what they’ve gone through, it starts to make sense why they believe in the crazy [00:08:45] things that RFK is saying.

Yeah. And so for me to mock someone in politics is [00:08:50] also mocking the people that truly believe them. Yeah. So when you bring these things up, just know that I [00:08:55] can’t. Act a certain way or I can’t take a side. Sure. So that was basically [00:09:00] what you said the other day or a while ago, is we’re playing Switzerland.

Yeah. It’s like I can’t give in [00:09:05] too much into whatever side I’m in. Yeah. I, it’s, I think you handled that [00:09:10] beautifully. And listen, I’ll start this podcast by saying I, I’m not having this conversation with Lucy today because I want. [00:09:15] And convince anyone listening to run their gym in a certain way. You can find your gym however you want.

If [00:09:20] you want your gym to be a beacon of leftist or rightist politics or centrist [00:09:25] politics, you go ahead and you plaster those politics on your front wall if you want to. [00:09:30] When we, when I work with Unicorn Society members, and Lucy included, what I tend to recommend, which [00:09:35] I think is probably what best serves the overall business, is that as a [00:09:40] business.

We can both advocate for the things we care about in this world and fund certain [00:09:45] charities, but when it comes to the client experience every day, I think it’s best for us to think of ourselves [00:09:50] like Switzerland, right? That our job is to make an inclusive space for two different types of people, [00:09:55] whether it be gender identity or political identity or socioeconomic [00:10:00] status, right?

The people of different backgrounds, beliefs, identities, opinions, can come together and work out for [00:10:05] one hour of their day and not have them their identity. Selves [00:10:10] opinions. Be threatened, right? That they can have a somewhat comfortable, if [00:10:15] not exciting, rewarding, inspiring experience at our gym. That’s what we all want for all of our [00:10:20] clients every day.

And, and I think to get that, we have to navigate these tensions thoughtfully. [00:10:25] And I think, Lucy, you said like the magic keyword, which is how do we get curious in the face of difference, right? Mm-hmm. [00:10:30] How you get curious in the face of different perspectives and opinions and get curious about where those perspectives and.[00:10:35]

Opinions came from, because it’s very easy to dehumanize the person and be like, oh, they’re just all idiots. Or they’re [00:10:40] just all woke. Yeah. Or they’re just all right. Yeah. That’s easy. It’s boring. That’s what’s harder [00:10:45] is to try to see the humanity in them. Try to see their background, see their history, and get [00:10:50] curious.

And so then let’s just say on that. That idea for a second. What are some of like the tools [00:10:55] of curiosity, right? I know you and I are big nerds about this topic. What does it look like for you as the owner and for you [00:11:00] as your team to get curious in those moments of tension with clients? [00:11:05] So we have a sheet that everybody fills out at the end of the shift.

Mm-hmm. And [00:11:10] one question at the end is, what’s something that you are judgemental about that you could [00:11:15] be. More curious about, because sometimes in the moment it’s really hard. You’re gonna make that [00:11:20] judgment right away. Yeah. But can you reflect back and then ask yourself these questions of, I wonder [00:11:25] how they got there, what would’ve had to happen for them to believe these certain things?

[00:11:30] Especially when it comes to alternative health, it’s very easy to find the points [00:11:35] that got people to believe. Some of the crazy things that they hear are, they say. Yeah, [00:11:40] and so really asking yourself open-ended questions and being curious on how these [00:11:45] people got to where they are. That’s step number one.

Yeah, I think it’s great for you [00:11:50] as the owner and to teach your team, like what are open-ended questions? How do you get curious? How do [00:11:55] you try to overcome that impulse of judgment to find curiosity in those [00:12:00] moments? And I think it’s hard to do. It’s easy to say and hard practice. It does actual take.

[00:12:05] Practice. So I think for some of you that means maybe doing roleplaying, some of these conversations in team meetings [00:12:10] or roleplaying some of these conversations in one-on-ones. Let’s go back and just pull this, right? ’cause you’ve mentioned this a [00:12:15] few times and I want, maybe you can give us an example of there are some people who come to [00:12:20] opinions, ideas, perspectives that are far different from yours and we get curious about that when we learned what’s the [00:12:25] background of that information.

And you had a few, I think, examples before we started recording that were really useful [00:12:30] about when you still get curious, you learn that people have really good reasons. For having their [00:12:35] beliefs. What’s an example that you can share when it comes to [00:12:40] alternative health? That’s a big one. So I grew up in alternative health.

Yeah. [00:12:45] And very woo woo mom, because she felt like the [00:12:50] medical establishment wasn’t. Really paying attention to her son who had a learning [00:12:55] disability. They wanted to put him on medications and that didn’t feel right to her. [00:13:00] So she did all the stuff that you hear, the MAHA people [00:13:05] talking about gluten free seed oils.

Yep, food dyes, [00:13:10] all this stuff. And back in the day when I was. Five and [00:13:15] 10 there. There wasn’t social media. So my mom was on these private [00:13:20] little group chats, of course, that she had to find deep on the internet. Yep. And these [00:13:25] people were like. If you got rid of gluten or my son stopped eating gluten and he was [00:13:30] autistic and now he’s speaking again.

Or my daughter couldn’t speak and I got rid of all [00:13:35] these food dyes and now she’s speaking again. So my mom was trying all these things and a lot of these [00:13:40] things worked. We also did a lot of crazy things like getting arm testing or [00:13:45] crystals put on our body by these crazy doctors. Sure. And what people don’t [00:13:50] realize is that there is a sea of people getting these crazy results.

These [00:13:55] people were suffering. They went to every single medical professional. They went to all these different [00:14:00] doctors, and then they changed something that someone on the internet said and they [00:14:05] started feeling better. Now I’m older and I realize maybe these things work for different [00:14:10] reasons. Sure.

Because it wasn’t causal, but still that they Exactly. They started feeling better for some reason, and [00:14:15] their effort felt connected to that. Yeah, exactly. And like any teenager, [00:14:20] I rebelled when I got older. Yeah. But then I went back into alternative health by getting into the [00:14:25] paleo community. Sure. And I spoke at these big paleo events on breathing and [00:14:30] movement.

But in these events, you meet people and every single person has a story, and the story [00:14:35] is the same. They were suffering, or their loved one was suffering, or their kid was suffering. [00:14:40] They went to 20 different doctors, everybody said you were normal or they can’t do [00:14:45] anything about it. And then they changed their diet with these alternative health.

Perspectives [00:14:50] and they got better. And you can’t dismiss that. It doesn’t mean that they’re [00:14:55] factual, doesn’t mean that they’re evidence-based, but you can’t take away their story. So how can you talk to [00:15:00] this person and respect their story and maybe try to get them to change their [00:15:05] perspective? For example, seed oils.

If someone comes up to me and they’re [00:15:10] like, I, whatever they’re the left is, they’re saying about seed oils is not right, because when I cut [00:15:15] out seed oils, I feel better. Yep. How can you validate that person’s experience and [00:15:20] slowly start, get, start to get them to think differently? Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s beautifully [00:15:25] said, Lucy.

I think that’s exactly the role that we as helping professionals can play, [00:15:30] right? Is we’re not explicitly trying to change everyone’s mind always, if we disagree with. Them. But [00:15:35] one of the things that we can start with is honoring their story, learning their story, understanding where their perspective or [00:15:40] opinions came from, especially when it comes to alternative health or history of chronic pain.

And you [00:15:45] work with a lot of people in pain when it comes to people of different racial or uh, identity, racial [00:15:50] identities, ethnic identities, gender identities, right? If you don’t understand where this person’s [00:15:55] coming from, the most important thing you can do to be someone that’s a helping professional in our [00:16:00] case is to at least learn.

At least be curious enough to learn about their background, their experience, their [00:16:05] story. And if at some point you have an opportunity to encourage them or inspire them to think differently [00:16:10] or try something new or get outside their own box, great. But alternatively, this is also a chance for [00:16:15] you to think differently, right?

And be open to you changing your mind. About the way [00:16:20] they think and that their story inspire your thoughts and opinions. So I think that’s [00:16:25] ultimately when we talk about being Switzerland, it’s actually not a passive role at all. It’s actually a very active [00:16:30] role. It’s an engaging role of learning and honoring people’s stories and identities and being [00:16:35] open-minded enough to shift, encouraging them to shift, allowing, being open to shifting yourself.

[00:16:40] And that’s hard to do. That’s much harder to do than just digging your heels in and believing in one [00:16:45] siloed. Point of view. So yeah, so thank you for saying, sharing that and sharing it so beautifully. [00:16:50] Let’s just maybe talk about other kinds of inclusion in the space. So I mentioned just a [00:16:55] second ago, you work with a lot of people in chronic pain who’ve had a lot of long-term [00:17:00] injury histories and things like that.

And pain these days is politicized, right? For a [00:17:05] million reasons. And there’s also a ton of research that shows that there’s a real bias when it comes to pain in our [00:17:10] medical. Spaces, right? Women are not believed, people of color are not believed when they express pain, [00:17:15] where men say they’re in pain and they’re given drugs immediately, especially white men, right?

And so there’s [00:17:20] a lot to be said about how we treat people in pain and in our gym [00:17:25] spaces, it’s very easy to, to be flippant about people’s pain and not believe them. Right. [00:17:30] But this, this goes to everything we’ve been saying is like, what if we got curious about their stories and their back stories about [00:17:35] pain?

What can come of that? So I’m sure you have a million examples here, but how do you. Approach this at your [00:17:40] gym. I have, so I have endless examples. I know we could do this for 900 years. Yeah. [00:17:45] So when it comes to pain, there’s a term called maladaptive belief. [00:17:50] And what a maladaptive belief is, it’s a belief deep down into their brain [00:17:55] that is not based off of the current evidence that we have.

And the issue with [00:18:00] pain is that our knowledge about it has evolved over the years. [00:18:05] So a lot of people have beliefs around pain, not just regular people, but medical [00:18:10] professionals that are completely outdated. And the one way that we used to look at [00:18:15] pain was very biomedical. That means that if something [00:18:20] hurts, that means something must be wrong with the tissues or the bones.

There must be some [00:18:25] damage. But now we know that pain is multifactorial. So now we look [00:18:30] at it from the lens of the bio psychosocial model, and that means that [00:18:35] there’s thousands of factors that go into why someone must be [00:18:40] experiencing pain. Yep. And so people have really bad [00:18:45] maladaptive beliefs around their pain, so when they feel a pain, they might think that their [00:18:50] ribs just popped outta place.

And that’s a maladaptive belief that is actually not [00:18:55] true. It’s not based off evidence that can’t happen, but. You can’t just [00:19:00] say that to someone day one. Trust me. I’ve tried. I’m sure. [00:19:05] I’m sure. As soon as I found out that bones don’t go out of place, I’m like, [00:19:10] mom, you’ve been believing a lie. Your bones are fine.[00:19:15]

That’s, I was like, that’s actually not what’s happening. And she’s, no, actually that is what’s happening. So there I’m [00:19:20] invalidating her story. Sure. Her own experience. And she even went behind my back and [00:19:25] continued to go to the chiropractor. Yeah. So that’s how. Successful people [00:19:30] are. If you’re jumping straight to being invalidating, just tell people they’re wrong.

It doesn’t [00:19:35] go very far. No. ’cause my mom goes to the chiropractor, she gets popped back into [00:19:40] place and I’m U for people who can’t see me. I’m using that in quotes. Yeah. So therefore that belief [00:19:45] gets ingrained and it just gets reinforced year after year. So it was really [00:19:50] hard to work through those beliefs.

And when it comes to pain, I [00:19:55] find that it’s a lot easier to use their own experience to slowly move at [00:20:00] move out of these maladaptive beliefs, which means that can take time. So you have to be very [00:20:05] patient and you have to build a lot of trust. Yeah. And what I, what that looks like, let’s [00:20:10] say someone has back pain, that’s their chronic issue.

That’s what they have maladaptive [00:20:15] beliefs around. So they’re really scared to feel their back pain. Mm-hmm. Because for them feeling [00:20:20] that pain takes them back to a really dark place in their life. Yeah. A lot of people, it, it [00:20:25] comes with a lot of meaning, uh Right. It comes with a lot of meaning. Yep. And so for the professional.

Them [00:20:30] tweaking their back is not that big of a deal. But you have to put yourself in their shoes because to [00:20:35] them it’s taken them back to a place where their marriage got ruined. Their, they lost their [00:20:40] job ’cause they were debilitated. So you really have to put yourself in their shoes. So [00:20:45] using something else in their body.

So let’s say their knee was hurting after a certain [00:20:50] exercise, but they don’t have that deep emotional connection to their knee. Mm-hmm. [00:20:55] It’s not that big of a deal. So after a couple days, it feels fine. And they trust you [00:21:00] enough to have them do the exercise again? Sure. ’cause you’ll tell them, you might not feel that pain at all.

The body is [00:21:05] adaptable. They do the exercise again. Their knee feels fine. Now you can [00:21:10] make that connection. So you know how your knee felt fine after two days. Mm-hmm. And you tried the [00:21:15] exercise again. Yep. Your back might be the same. Yeah. So would you be willing to try [00:21:20] that exercise again, even though you twined your back last week?

Sure. And that’s how you can slowly [00:21:25] start changing people’s beliefs around their own pain by using their own experience. Yeah. [00:21:30] Let them help them acquire evidence. Mm-hmm. The reason they have their beliefs, they have Right. As often they [00:21:35] have this backstory of acquiring lots of evidence. Yeah. Factual and non-factual evidence.

Yeah. [00:21:40] Yeah. That, that something is true. And so if you help them acquire a new basket of evidence that [00:21:45] works with their belief system, then things can shift. Things can shift, yeah. But I love [00:21:50] that, that it was built on a foundation of empathy, right? That approach is built on a foundation of curiosity, [00:21:55] of experimentation, of letting them lead and not invalidating them.

And I think [00:22:00] that all is like just a. Chef’s kiss of like perfect way to help take care of [00:22:05] people in a way that meets them where they’re at. We talk about that all the time as helping professionals is a, wanna meet [00:22:10] people where they’re at and help them from that place as opposed to judging or shaming or blaming.[00:22:15]

And so that’s a beautiful example. Any other places in your gym, Lucy, where [00:22:20] there becomes kind of friction of identities or ideas? We talked about politics, we talked about [00:22:25] pain, we talked about alternative health beliefs. Any other areas that have become kind of [00:22:30] friction full? Not necessarily no. With the clients, [00:22:35] but with.

The coaches and this Oh yeah. Is the same with everybody. Yeah. [00:22:40] When you see someone not chain, and they’re so desperate to feel better, they’re [00:22:45] in a lot of pain, or they’re dealing with a lot of issues, or they’re a fat loss [00:22:50] client and they just keep failing and failing, it’s really easy for the coach to [00:22:55] jump into this judgmental state.

Oh yeah. Where? Come on. Like, how bad does it have to get [00:23:00] hundred percent. To want the change. So to always remind yourself that there could be [00:23:05] something else going on that you have no idea about, that maybe [00:23:10] fitness or them getting out of pain is not that big of a priority. It might be for you as a coach, [00:23:15] but maybe their kid is sick or maybe their caretaking, one of their.

[00:23:20] Parents. Yeah. And that’s taking all their extra energy. You have no idea. You have no idea. Their job could be [00:23:25] stressful, they could have other things going on in their relationships or there’s so many things, but [00:23:30] you’re right. I think that’s a really great point, is that the only way that we can serve people in the ways we’ve been talking about [00:23:35] on this podcast is if our team is really on the same page and they feel like they have the right tools and [00:23:40] skills to be able to do that.

If not, I absolutely, absolutely have seen teams with the best intentions. Really [00:23:45] caring, loving teams of helping professionals. Even when I worked in hospitality, I saw this people who really [00:23:50] dedicated to our customers and our guests really venture into this place of becoming kind of cynical [00:23:55] customer service agents, right?

Where it’s just, it’s so easy to bitch about the customers and bitch [00:24:00] about the clients and be like, they don’t really even care. I’m working with ’em for six months. They don’t, I don’t think they even really [00:24:05] care about their health or they’re just lazy. They’re just lazy or just they have no discipline.

It’s so easy [00:24:10] to go to that kind of jaded place where we just talk shit about clients and then [00:24:15] nothing is more poisonous to an environment than a coaching team that has given [00:24:20] up on compassionate empathy and just assumes the worst in people. You just can’t serve them [00:24:25] anymore authentically. If really behind the scenes you’re talking shit, not believing your [00:24:30] clients, then it’s, I feel like it’s so hard to show up and be genuinely interested in supporting them [00:24:35] when they are in the building.

I think it’s just impossible. I think that kind of behind the scenes talk is [00:24:40] something that all of you listening should be looking out for in your gym. I’ll say this. I also wanna say it’s okay [00:24:45] to vent once in a while. Like sometimes there’s someone on your team who needs to get something off their chest.

’cause there’s a [00:24:50] genuinely a client who genuinely annoys them. Right? But that’s different venting gossip. [00:24:55] I think there’s a place for some of that, to be honest, but it’s in the persistent. Kind of [00:25:00] culture of negative. Talk about clients, assuming that they don’t have their best interest in heart, [00:25:05] assuming they’re just dumb or lazy, like it’s that kind of stuff I think is really insidious.

Yeah. So [00:25:10] what kind of things do you do with your team? Last question as we wrap things up. What do you do with your team? ’cause clearly you’re good at this. You’ve [00:25:15] been practicing these skills and these conversations for many years. I know you have a relatively new-ish team. I [00:25:20] mean your, most of your team’s been around for I think, what, under five years, right?

And you’ve been grooming them and [00:25:25] training them all this time to take. This approach to caring for your clients? How do you help your team [00:25:30] get good at this? Allowing them to vent? I’m glad you brought that up. Yeah. Because there is, there’s a difference [00:25:35] between venting because it’s a lot. Yeah. It’s to hold these people’s pain and to see them [00:25:40] struggle.

That is a lot for the coach and the people who are here. And you were the one that. [00:25:45] Gave me the idea that being available to my [00:25:50] team for them to vent. Mm-hmm. Because in that moment I can help them [00:25:55] reframe things. Yes. So venting, but then it starts to jump into being judgmental, so then [00:26:00] I can start asking questions like, do you think something else could be going on?

Sure. Or the [00:26:05] reminder that I got from my therapist last year was a really good one because I found [00:26:10] myself. Or I know that I can’t healthly detach from someone’s issues when [00:26:15] I’m getting upset and he gave me a really good or one liner where he [00:26:20] said, didn’t you have to hit rock bottom? For you to want to [00:26:25] change.

Yeah. Why are you trying to take away their pain that is going to eventually lead to [00:26:30] change? Yeah. Why are you trying to jump ahead? And that was a really good point. Yeah. That I had to hit [00:26:35] rock bottom with a lot of things that I eventually ended up changing, so maybe my client hasn’t [00:26:40] hit rock bottom.

Sure. So just learning how to reframe. And ask better questions or [00:26:45] even think something else could be going on. Yeah, I think it’s an important part of how we [00:26:50] teach our team to act with our clients is help them understand and honor everyone’s story [00:26:55] and everyone’s journey, even if it’s a little different, even if their people, our clients are on a journey that we don’t think is [00:27:00] optimal or ideal.

Or we wish they were on a different journey or we wish they were on a all a more similar [00:27:05] journey so we could all help them more, more efficiently. But they’re not the, it’s, we’re messy humans. I think the more we [00:27:10] can teach our team to lead with that kind of empathy and that curiosity, I think the, and helping them [00:27:15] reframe those negative thoughts they have about clients say, okay, what can we learn from this client?

This client is our teacher. [00:27:20] What are they trying to teach us? If we stay open-ended, open and open-minded and curious about this client, [00:27:25] what could we be missing? Yeah. What else could be going on in their life and their work and their body that we don’t know about. [00:27:30] How do we get more curious? I think all of those are fantastic exercises and those skills don’t come [00:27:35] naturally to a lot of folks.

Yeah. I think the key there is asking open-ended questions. [00:27:40] Yeah. And that’s, that’s it. Easier said than done. And when I teach workshops, that’s the first thing that I get people [00:27:45] to start ask. Yeah, is make it, you can either role play with your team a [00:27:50] ton and you can role play with people, but then that means that the only time you get that practice is when you’re doing the [00:27:55] role playing.

Yep. Or you can just integrate it in your life. Anytime someone [00:28:00] asks you a question, if it’s your friend or just in a regular conversation, challenge yourself [00:28:05] to ask open-ended questions, and eventually it’ll become the way you ask questions. [00:28:10] 100%. It becomes such a habit. It becomes easier. Yeah. Just as easy to do as not do.

[00:28:15] Yeah, because I remember looking at you, I’m like, there’s just no way I would have to change my personality or who I am. [00:28:20] And it does seem robotic when you’re trying to change how to communicate. Yeah. [00:28:25] But now I get comments with my friends. Oh, there goes Lucy with her questions. [00:28:30] I don’t even notice I’m doing it.

Totally. When I teach coaching skills and coaching [00:28:35] conversation skills, I, and obviously been doing it for years, I always start those classes by [00:28:40] saying, learning these skills is like learning a new language. Yeah. And you can easily, people who speak multiple language can easily [00:28:45] turn it on and off. They often can think or not think in those other languages and [00:28:50] learning to.

Questions differently, to listen differently, to communicate differently. [00:28:55] We all do it in different areas of our life. We all speak different languages with our friends than we do with our family, than we do, but they’re, [00:29:00] it’s more subtle. And sometimes learning kind of these coaching skills is really more extreme [00:29:05] version of another language.

But you can practice and learn and you will learn it. And at first it’s mechanical. You have to [00:29:10] memorize some phrases, and after a time it feels really natural to lead conversations [00:29:15] with this kind of empathy and curiosity. Let’s leave it there. Thank you, Lucy. This was a great [00:29:20] conversation. We could probably make this another couple hours with all the examples and stories we could tell, but I think this is a really [00:29:25] great overview of how to make our fitness spaces, our gyms, just more inclusive environments.

[00:29:30] And there’s a lot more we can say on the idea of inclusion and equity and all of that. But I think for now, I think this [00:29:35] is a really great start to how people can approach it. Maybe closing thought from you, if there’s people [00:29:40] listening who are like, Hey, I wanna get started with my team and open this conversation up for the first [00:29:45] time, where do they start?

In a meeting [00:29:50] and the meeting. Is around open-ended questions and curie. Mm-hmm. Yeah. [00:29:55] And the activity that I like to start with is think of a time where someone [00:30:00] really misunderstood, understood you, or misjudged you, and you weren’t able to share your [00:30:05] perspective. Yeah. Where they saw you in a way that didn’t really match [00:30:10] who you were intending to be.

Yeah. And write down two questions that person [00:30:15] could have asked to get your perspective Beautiful. And. I bet those two [00:30:20] questions are open-ended questions. Yeah. The how, the why, the what, and now [00:30:25] start really integrating these open-ended questions and have that as a skill, [00:30:30] so then you can start being more curious.

Yeah. Love it. Beautiful exercise. I love [00:30:35] that framing. It gets them to think about their own experience and identity and how they could be misunderstood. I think it’s [00:30:40] beautiful. Awesome. Thank you as always, Lucy. I always said I learned something when we talk and today was no exception. [00:30:45] So thank you and dear listeners, I hope you enjoyed this.

I’ll see you all on the next one. Have a good guest [00:30:50] day.[00:30:55] [00:31:00] [00:31:05]

[00:31:10] Go.