The Most Important Skill you Need to Manage Your Team

Speaker: [00:00:00] 1, 2, 3, [00:00:05] 4. Welcome to The Business for Unicorns podcast, where we help gym and [00:00:10] studio owners create a business and a life they love. I’m your host, Michael Keeler. [00:00:15] Join me and the business unicorns team each week for actionable advice, expert [00:00:20] insights, and the inside scoop on what it really takes to level up your gym.

Get ready to [00:00:25] unlock your potential and become a real unicorn in the fitness industry.[00:00:30] [00:00:35]

Speaker 2: Hey [00:00:40] friends, today we’re gonna, today we’re gonna talk about a little bit of the leadership [00:00:45] skills that don’t often get a lot of attention. And if you’ve been a listener for any amount of [00:00:50] time so far, you know that we talk a lot about systems. [00:00:55] But there’s some things that just can’t really be [00:01:00] systemized or they can’t be systemized in the traditional sense of here’s the SOP, here’s the checklist, [00:01:05] here’s the poster on the wall of how it’s done.

And it comes with that journey from coming [00:01:10] from a trainer to a business owner. And in the same sense, you can’t really systemize like, [00:01:15] how do I really get a pulse check on clients? And how do I know when they’re having a bad day? It’s a skill that you develop with [00:01:20] experience. What we’re gonna talk about today is.

How to deal with some like [00:01:25] team member or potentially even C client conflict. So Pete, I know [00:01:30] I’ve got a couple stories about actually recent stories that I really leaned into this [00:01:35] and everything worked out great. And I imagine you’ve probably got lots of stories like this as well. [00:01:40] ’cause you’ve been in business for longer than I have.

Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think I’ve dealt with it well [00:01:45] at times and poorly at others. And I have some fresh experiences [00:01:50] just because of the. The challenges associated with relocating a business. [00:01:55] In the last couple of weeks, we’ve been operating at a place where we [00:02:00] are feeling on edge for sure. And the team is reflecting that in their [00:02:05] behavior, and I’m sure I am as well.

And it, it comes home with me too. I’m sure you know when [00:02:10] you get home and your wife calls you out and she’s, what’s the deal? And you haven’t even said [00:02:15] anything yet. That’s where my house is at these days, and it’s [00:02:20] because. Conflict comes up when we’re all stressed. And I’ve got, long [00:02:25] story short, I got a lot of experiences in this recently, Ben.

I don’t know that I’ve done a phenomenal job with it [00:02:30] every time, but I’ve learned every time.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and that’s part of the magic here [00:02:35] is, as Michael said to me years ago, but it stuck with me. [00:02:40] Hard conversations don’t get easier. You just get better at having them. So it’s, I think that actually [00:02:45] kind of lies into the, ties into the core message here.

We’d like to give you some skills and I’ve got some [00:02:50] steps for you listeners to help you deal with these things. But Pete’s point’s well taken that you’re not [00:02:55] gonna knock it out of the park every time, but you’re never gonna knock it out of the park if you don’t swing [00:03:00] baseball.

Speaker 3: Perfect. Two good quotes there.

I like the Michael one. I’m gonna put on my wall on my [00:03:05] kids’ wall.

Speaker 2: Do you want me to start with one of my [00:03:10] recent stories?

Speaker 3: Yeah, let’s do it.

Speaker 2: Okay. I’ve been looking for, to have someone sit in kind of the [00:03:15] head coach role at my gym, lead, coach. Call it whatever you want, but they’re in charge of quality [00:03:20] control.

Making sure that sessions are being done properly with session audits, making sure that our programming [00:03:25] standards are being met and running. Continued education for the team. It’s not a huge role. It’s, [00:03:30] I broke it down to probably an average of three to four hours a week based on the systems we [00:03:35] have. And we’ve got this wonderful coach who’s been with us for about a year, who’s retired [00:03:40] teacher.

His communication skills are great, his technical expertise are great. He’s been doing this for 15 [00:03:45] years. We went through the formal interview process. We weren’t just, oh, you want this job? And we presented to the [00:03:50] team and he applied and he ended up getting the role. [00:03:55] Fast forward to maybe a month in.

Nothing was being done. [00:04:00] This role does have a lot of independence and I inspected what I expected [00:04:05] and I noticed like shit, just like straight up wasn’t happening or it wasn’t happening to the [00:04:10] degree we had discussed or the timeline we had agreed to. [00:04:15] And I have like you, I’ve come home and I’m like, my wife is like, what’s on your mind?

I can tell something’s up. [00:04:20] And I’m like, there’s the one, there’s the frustration that this is a new role and it’s like on, we’re still in the [00:04:25] honeymoon phase and shit’s not happening. This is a really bad sign. And there’s also the frustration of the, like [00:04:30] monkeys in my head of you’re to myself. It’s, I’m always gonna have to do this.

I’m always gonna be in this role. [00:04:35] It doesn’t light me up. It’s always gonna be the same. You know, I’m never gonna reach that horizon. If you’ve ever [00:04:40] had that feeling before, just a feeling of defeated. So I talked to my GM about [00:04:45] it and we went back and forth and surprise, surprise, the answer was, have the hard conversation.

[00:04:50] And my job was to lean in. So I set a meeting with this coach and started from [00:04:55] the place. ’cause the problem was, one, the things weren’t happening, but two, I had a [00:05:00] story about what was going on. And as with all stories, they’re usually fiction. I [00:05:05] started with what’s going on with him personally and that some, some expectations haven’t been met.

But hey man, like I wanted to [00:05:10] start like this is really unlike you. You’ve been really on the ball since you started here. What’s up? Are you okay? [00:05:15] I’ll spare you all the details of the conversation ’cause it was a little bit windy and twisty, but [00:05:20] turns out he’s got a ton of family stuff going on. He’s got three.

I don’t wanna share details ’cause [00:05:25] it’s his thing. He’s got three independent family things and any one [00:05:30] of them alone would rock me. The fact that he’s dealing with this was like, holy shit, you’ve got that going on. I’m [00:05:35] like, alright. And what I didn’t wanna do [00:05:40] was the asshole part of me wanted to come down on him and be like, what the fuck?

This isn’t working. I don’t trust [00:05:45] you, et cetera. I knew that wouldn’t serve the business. I wasn’t trying to push him out ’cause he’s a tremendous [00:05:50] coach. Really good. But I wanted to make sure that we weren’t gonna throw the baby out with the bath water. [00:05:55] And through having this hard conversation, we were able to actually like really [00:06:00] adjust this role, rightsize it for him, where he’s still gonna help with some of it, [00:06:05] but it a little bit of a fire in me to help fill some of the gaps that led to those things being missed in the first [00:06:10] place.

And now we’re actually, we’re probably a month removed from this, and now we’re at a place [00:06:15] where he’s contributing, he’s hitting his stuff. I don’t have any of those stories running me. So I feel [00:06:20] like newly inspired about my business and what’s possible, and I’m actually running the continuing education for the team.[00:06:25]

So there’s so many times I share this because there’s so many times I’ve talked to a BFU [00:06:30] member who’s, oh, my trainer missed a couple expectations. Like when should I fire them? And one of my [00:06:35] first questions is. Have you talked to them about this already? Like I need a little bit more [00:06:40] context for like, when do I fire this person?

And sometimes there is a time and a place to just let [00:06:45] somebody go. Not everybody’s a good fit. And more often than not, when you have somebody’s a [00:06:50] good, it seems like a good fit and the right person in the right seat, but things aren’t being done. There’s usually [00:06:55] some either misalignment of expectations, which I believe is on you as the leader more often than not, [00:07:00] or there’s something else going on.

It is very rare [00:07:05] that you’ve got a team member who’s missing expectations because they’re trying to fucking torpedo your business. [00:07:10] I just don’t see that happening almost ever. But that’s sometimes [00:07:15] a story that we tell ourselves and we get emotionally worked up and we can’t sleep at night and all those things, [00:07:20] and like it’s just not true.

And once you start having that conversation, you realize like what’s [00:07:25] actually going on? And you’re able to come to a solution when you have all the information. Do you have any examples [00:07:30] like this, Pete?

Speaker 3: It’s a great story and it’s an example of the [00:07:35] same issue I have found myself in again and again. I make this mistake at work.

I make this mistake in [00:07:40] my personal life, and it is, it’s just failing [00:07:45] to understand the fact that everybody has shit going on, not just us. We’re so egocentric that we [00:07:50] think I’ve got problems. No one else has problems. That person being an asshole because they’re an asshole [00:07:55] and. I constantly find myself on these podcast conversations coming [00:08:00] back to the fact that what we do as, as bosses and leaders is just such a [00:08:05] wonderful extension of all the conversations we have as parents, young kids, and I [00:08:10] find myself having to have this discussion with my boys constantly.

That [00:08:15] person, like he’s got, one of my kids, has a friend whose parents are going [00:08:20] through major turmoil in their marriage. Not getting along and [00:08:25] it’s in his house and that kid’s not the best kid when he [00:08:30] is out and about these days, and I can’t tell my kid that. [00:08:35] I can’t say this is because so and so did this and so disagreed with that decision.

No, I have [00:08:40] to say he might have a lot going on that you don’t know about and it’s impacting the way he behaves. [00:08:45] That’s no different from what happened with you. It’s no different from the fact that I [00:08:50] probably was less enjoyable to work for. During the calendar year of [00:08:55] 2025 than I was in 2024 because we were at the end of the road with a terminally ill [00:09:00] mother-in-law.

And every bit of it impacted how I [00:09:05] came, how I showed up for everything. And I didn’t realize it until after the [00:09:10] fact. But the point is, we’re all fighting a battle in our bad [00:09:15] behavior. To your point is very rarely about bad intent. It’s really just a [00:09:20] function of. An extension of where we’re at outside of here or what’s going on in our head.

And I [00:09:25] wanna build off of your point, if you don’t mind. I had a conversation of this nature recently with someone [00:09:30] who was having a hard time with a direct report who just wasn’t getting stuff done. Like you said, this is a member [00:09:35] unicorn society and this business owner said, [00:09:40] we’re on this rollercoaster, this yo-yo of good performance.[00:09:45]

They fall off. I remind them they fall off. And we do this. [00:09:50] This is the story of social media at my gym. It is, Hey guys, we gotta do a better job getting [00:09:55] content out. It’s time. We have one great week. I convinced myself we’ve [00:10:00] fixed it. We have two bad weeks. We have another come to Jesus talk in the next staff [00:10:05] meeting.

Maybe we get two good weeks this time, and I need to do a better [00:10:10] job of practicing what I preach here. But the feedback that I gave him was, we need to [00:10:15] stop. Thinking we’ve fixed it because we had one good week, and we [00:10:20] need to start positively reinforcing the successes in the moment. And [00:10:25] instead of saying, all right, that’s good, let’s move to the next task.

The next task needs to wait. [00:10:30] Because what we need to do the next day is come back and say, Hey, you crushed it yesterday. How are we [00:10:35] gonna do this again today? And then it’s, Hey, you’ve been on fire this week. I think we’ve got some really [00:10:40] good momentum with this social media content. Is there any way I can be a resource to make sure we finish the week [00:10:45] strong?

Because I’d love to be in the same place a week from today, and instead of putting a [00:10:50] bandaid on something walking away and coming back and having to patch that wound again later, I’m just [00:10:55] stepping on the gas. I’m pouring fuel on the fire. You’re doing a good job. This continues to be [00:11:00] important to me.

Please let me know how I can help you out. And so we [00:11:05] just. It’s that rule. You say something once. Okay. [00:11:10] You say something three or four times, you feel like you’ve said too much. You almost haven’t even scratched the surface. [00:11:15] I heard Hormoz say this a year or two back. Yeah. As it relates to our marketing.

He’s like, [00:11:20] you probably need to say it a hundred times more than you’re currently saying it. And it same thing goes here [00:11:25] when we, this isn’t just what gets measured, gets managed, or [00:11:30] this is more than that. This is. Our own kind of personal ethos. [00:11:35] It’s important to me, so I’m gonna tell you every day, I apologize if that’s redundant, but I’m gonna keep telling you [00:11:40] because matters that much and I think that’s the, that has helped me the most in the [00:11:45] last year or so as a leader.

Speaker 2: [00:11:50] Yeah, that’s a really good point because, yeah. I see with both Jim Motors and Unicorn [00:11:55] Society, two things. One is they’ve said it once. And often they, they’re [00:12:00] not, bless their hearts, don’t have much skill with hard conversations. They’re like, Hey, I noticed this thing. Can you like [00:12:05] just, okay, thanks. And it’s like those weren’t, those expectations weren’t even remotely clear [00:12:10] or the thing I see is that they really hit the accelerator for a few [00:12:15] days, maybe even a few weeks, but when they let their foot off the gas, they let it completely off the glass gas.

[00:12:20] And in the following few days it comes completely to a rest. And then they end up having 50 priorities to manage at [00:12:25] any one time, rather than actually putting a system and expectations in place where they can hit the [00:12:30] accelerator to get it up to speed and then keep it going at cruise control. And yeah, [00:12:35] it comes from those two things.

One is leaning into that hard conversation, even if it’s feels like the [00:12:40] millionth time that social media has to come up again or two, just not shying away from the hard [00:12:45] conversation and jumping. Jumping to a conclusion based on the [00:12:50] story that they’ve been mulling over in their head for two weeks without addressing the actual core issue or [00:12:55] figuring out the impact or the intent of the person that the thing happened with.[00:13:00]

Speaker 3: So can I give an an example that differs from this in the, [00:13:05] the soft, and I guess I’ll say I had a run in with [00:13:10] our new neighbor. In the last 48 hours, and it wasn’t really the business [00:13:15] owner, it was the property manager of our next door neighbor. And we are one of two [00:13:20] tenants in this building. So it’s important that we know how to cohesively [00:13:25] function.

And this guy came in hot at the end of a weekday [00:13:30] and he came in the office and I happened to be standing there at the front desk in a full office. My [00:13:35] son was there, my office manager was there. There might have been a parent on the couch. [00:13:40] He didn’t like the way the parking lot was being used. He took issue with some of our [00:13:45] clients parking on his side of the building.

Whether that is acceptable or not is neither here nor [00:13:50] there in this case, because what I wanna talk about is approach. He came in [00:13:55] really negative, patronizing, condescending, tone, aggressive with me, and at [00:14:00] first I tried to check all the boxes in my BFU difficult [00:14:05] conversations, playbook in my head. That’s okay.

We’re gonna calm this down. I’m gonna [00:14:10] be the more logical same person. This, and it wasn’t working. And [00:14:15] I very quickly realized I need to pivot to mirroring his energy. [00:14:20] And so I, I basically said to him, listen, I’m gonna give you a do-over, if you wanna start [00:14:25] this conversation again, one where your tone isn’t so condescending and you aren’t so [00:14:30] aggressive with me, I think we can resolve pretty quickly.

I’m [00:14:35] gonna return the energy that you bring to me in every conversation you and I have from this point forward. [00:14:40] Would you like to restart? And he was clearly thrown by that [00:14:45] initially, but it stopped all of the problems. I mirrored him for [00:14:50] 10 seconds. He realized what was happening and he said, okay, fine.

Here’s what [00:14:55] I’m really, here’s what’s driving me nuts. And he didn’t even come in to talk to me. He didn’t [00:15:00] open with what was driving him nuts. He came in with some other nonsense that didn’t even make sense. He was just [00:15:05] so heated when he came through the door. He didn’t have an opportunity to take a deep breath and step in and be [00:15:10] like, let’s have an adult conversation.

But a little bit of mirroring got us there and we [00:15:15] ended with the BFU playbook stuff. But the point is, if there’s a massive [00:15:20] disconnect between how you approach the conversation and the other person does [00:15:25] like one person’s super high, the other one’s low, one’s person’s super low key. The other one’s [00:15:30] really wound up and agitated.

You’re gonna inevitably run into a disconnect. This [00:15:35] chasm that’s really hard to get over. I needed to use instincts just like you’re talking about, [00:15:40] and mirror a little bit. And we got to a place that could work. [00:15:45] And for the record, we exchanged cell phone numbers. And I said, Hey, anytime you run into this issue, [00:15:50] I’m excited to solve this.

Whether I’m here or not, I have resources here, but. We [00:15:55] just have to have a slightly modified approach to how we do this. And I’ll tell you what, Ben, we got in the [00:16:00] car to drive home. My son, Colin and I, ’cause he was at the gym training and he came in and he saw [00:16:05] that and he, I could see on his face, he was panicked because I was elevating my voice.

Another adult [00:16:10] we got in the car and he asked me what he had and what happened. But he [00:16:15] told me he was so proud of me. When he watched the rest of the conversation and it was the [00:16:20] best, it was absolutely the best. Like any of my employee could have been like, you handled that well, and I’d be like, whatever, that guy’s an [00:16:25] asshole.

But instead, my son, my 11-year-old said, I was really proud of how you handled that and it made my [00:16:30] whole entire week so difficult. Conversations can be good[00:16:35]

Speaker 2: if your 11-year-old son is recognizing how you [00:16:40] showed up. That’s probably the best testimony I could think of to the demonstration of leadership [00:16:45] skills and action.

Speaker 3: So how do you wanna round this out with good takeaways, [00:16:50] meaningful action items?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Your story is a [00:16:55] really powerful example of where there’s no playbook for how to deal with an agitated, [00:17:00] heated neighbor who comes in.

What a beautiful curve ball you threw. But that came from skill, [00:17:05] and I think I’d argue, and you’d probably agree, that just comes from [00:17:10] years of practice and that practice has to start somewhere. So. To make this [00:17:15] actionable, I think I’ve got two things for people. First, if you’re dealing with any [00:17:20] interpersonal challenges, whether it’s stories you’ve fabricated in your head, whether you’re recognizing the fiction [00:17:25] or not, or just shit, how do I deal with this?

The first step in principle is to really [00:17:30] be willing to lean in, get, and by lean in, it’s not just talk to the person, it’s get [00:17:35] curious with the person. Whether it’s a clever curve ball like you threw to mirror [00:17:40] somebody else’s energy or just see what’s up with somebody like I did with that coach. You’ve gotta get [00:17:45] curious and you’ve gotta set, you gotta set some time aside to do that and be in a good head space.[00:17:50]

And then the second takeaway is to give you a little bit of a framework for this, because even though it [00:17:55] can’t really be too truly systemized, there are best practices. I want to go over our five [00:18:00] steps of giving feedback. Feedback isn’t always the move. Again, if your neighbor’s yelling at you, [00:18:05] can I give you some feedback about your attitude?

That’s probably not gonna go over well. But more often than not, you can [00:18:10] open the conversation with, Hey, can I give you some feedback? Here’s what I’ve been noticing. And then it actually leads into [00:18:15] what’s really going on. So the five steps are, first get consent, and that looks [00:18:20] like, Hey Pete, I’ve got some feedback for you.

Is now a good time? And they’re allowed to say no. [00:18:25] If they’re having a terrible day and they’re like, now’s really got a good time. You could be like, great, it’s important [00:18:30] to me that we talk in the next 24 hours. When’s a good time for you? But don’t force feedback on [00:18:35] someone if they don’t actually want it.

Second is just to share the facts and [00:18:40] feelings. So that looks like, Hey Pete, what I’ve seen and heard is blah, blah, blah. And that [00:18:45] really made me feel this way. It’s not just you were late, it’s you [00:18:50] were late. And what’s the impact of that, the thing that’s going through your head that’s keeping you up at night?

The [00:18:55] third step is you need to acknowledge their perspective and that looks like what has your experience [00:19:00] been? And let them talk, ask probing questions throughout. Try to hold up a mirror to reflect [00:19:05] back what they’re saying. So it helps them get even clearer on what they’re experiencing. ’cause it might [00:19:10] be someone comes in heated, it might also be a coach who’s gonna have actually been meaning to tell you, I’ve got these crazy [00:19:15] things going on and I’m feeling lost.

I don’t know where to go from here. Like that completely changed the tone of the [00:19:20] conversation for me. It went from you’re in trouble to how can I support you and get a mutually important job done. [00:19:25] Step four is like, you’re still their boss, so share some wants. [00:19:30] And that looks like what I’d like to have happen next is X.

What do you think should happen next? Make it a [00:19:35] collaboration. Sometimes that’s going to be exchanging cell phone numbers so you can not [00:19:40] have an argument in front of your customers. And sometimes that actually is making some [00:19:45] changes to a role or responsibilities or shifts or who knows what, whether it’s a temporary or permanent basis.[00:19:50]

And the last step, and probably the most important step is you need to agree to [00:19:55] action. And that you’re not always gonna have a solve for this. Sometimes the accountability, let’s say a coach was late, [00:20:00] you’re not gonna be like, all right, moving forward, I’m gonna text you two hours before to make sure you’re [00:20:05] awake.

It doesn’t have to be that, but it’s collaborating on like, how do we hold us? How do we, [00:20:10] how do I hold you accountable this? Or how do we work together to make sure that this doesn’t become a pattern of [00:20:15] behavior and we’re having this conversation, but at another level the following week. So [00:20:20] again, get consent.

Share facts and feelings, acknowledge their perspective. Share [00:20:25] your wants and agree to action. Now, I will say this isn’t the perfect [00:20:30] formula that is guaranteed to knock it outta the park every time, but I’d say 90 to 95% of the time [00:20:35] this structure works. But it only works through getting better. [00:20:40] Like hard conversations don’t get easier.

You just get better at having them. [00:20:45]

Speaker 3: Yep. And the, for me, the takeaway is. Plans never work, but planning always [00:20:50] does. I’d suggest if you’re in a leadership position and you find yourself [00:20:55] consistently having conversations of this nature, I’d have those five steps written down. Even [00:21:00] worst case scenario on a Post-it note on my computer monitor, and I’d read it.

For [00:21:05] 20 seconds before opening the door to start that conversation. And the only other piece of [00:21:10] advice I’ll give in closing to build off of this would be if you are somebody who is on the [00:21:15] receiving end of a difficult conversation that you didn’t see coming, it can make you [00:21:20] feel blindsided. And one of the.

Takeaways I [00:21:25] had from my difficult conversation the other night was, whenever I have these, I realized [00:21:30] that my heart rate’s a little elevated. My like sweating, and I’m like, Ugh, I’m so [00:21:35] wound uptight at the conclusion of it. And I didn’t realize it was happening, and I was telling my [00:21:40] landlord that this conversation went down because he’s responsible.

[00:21:45] He’s gonna be the one who’s gonna hear from both parties if something goes really sideways. And I said, Hey, this went down. I think we’re [00:21:50] good. But I want you to know in case you get any complaints. But I think we’re good. And he said, whenever I [00:21:55] have somebody come at me with a conversation like that. I request a change of venue.[00:22:00]

And I was like, what do you mean? And he goes, if someone came at me in your office, then I wasn’t expecting that. I’d ask if we [00:22:05] could step out front to have the conversation. ’cause it felt like I got a little bit of control back and at the very [00:22:10] least, I wasn’t completely the victim in this what feels like an [00:22:15] attack.

And it felt so brilliant to me because I could have and should have said to him, Hey, let’s just [00:22:20] step right out front door’s right there. We don’t need to have this conversation in front of my [00:22:25] son and my office manager, Kristen, and all these people. And it might’ve changed the power dynamic [00:22:30] mentally a little bit.

And it’s not an insulting question. Cool, let’s have that conversation. Can we go 20 [00:22:35] feet over there? And I think it might’ve changed the game and I would’ve been a little less aggressive [00:22:40] in my response, even though it worked.[00:22:45]

Speaker 2: Yeah, that’s a good point. Sometimes I’ve had some. If it’s a step into my office, [00:22:50] Pete, I’ve got some feedback for you. Even if the feedback is about how good you’re doing, I bet that’s gonna spike your heart [00:22:55] rate a little bit and be like, oh shit. Going into the principal’s office. Am I gonna get in trouble?

So there could be something to be said [00:23:00] for, I’ve got some feedback for you. Could we go for a quick walk around the block, or to the park or the coffee shop or [00:23:05] whatever? It buys you a little bit of time. And changing the kind of structural environment means [00:23:10] it’s like it throws out the routine a little bit, to your point, which is useful.

Speaker 3: Yeah. A mutually agreeable [00:23:15] space. Everybody’s in control.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Let’s leave it there. So if you’re having any [00:23:20] interpersonal anything, one lean in, two, use those five steps for feedback [00:23:25] to give yourself a chance at getting it right. A very likely chance to get it right. And three, if [00:23:30] needed, find a mutually agreeable environment so that both people can relax a little bit and feel that sense of control.[00:23:35]

Thanks for your time, Pete.

Speaker 3: Good chatting. We’ll talk soon.

Speaker 2: Talk [00:23:40] soon.[00:23:45] [00:23:50] [00:23:55]

[00:24:00] Go.