Episode 291

Developing Your Team for Maximum Performance with Chris Travis

In this episode, Chris Travis joins me to talk about developing your team for maximum performance.

[00:00:00] Hello, my friend on today’s episode, I’m having back on the podcast, the brilliant Chris Travis. He is the owner and CEO of Seattle strength and performance. He also is one of our brand new coaches at business for unicorns. So I’m so excited for you to learn from him again on this podcast. He’s someone who scaled to, you know, what is what would be three gyms in five years.

He’s fantastic at growing and scaling his gym. And the thing we dive into today’s podcast is all about how to grow and scale the. People at the gym, how to create a path of growth and development for your trainers and for all of your staff as your gym grows and scales. So if you’re growing your gym and you have a growing team, this is a great episode for you to learn about how to keep them around and keep them growing and learning over time.

So keep on listening and enjoy this episode.

Welcome to the Business for Unicorns [00:01:00] podcast, where we help gym owners unleash the full potential of their business. I’m your host, Michael Keeler. Join me each week for actionable advice, expert insights, and the inside scoop on what it really takes to level up your gym. Get ready to unlock your potential and become a real unicorn in the fitness industry.

Let’s begin.

Hello, fitness, business nerds. What’s up. Welcome to another episode of the business unicorns podcast. And dare I say, happy holidays. If you’re listening to this podcast, when it gets released and another big announcement, I want to make sure we dive into right away, which is we have another free webinar coming up.

So for all of you who want to get a little bit more business unicorns in your life, webinar coming up that Mark is running and it’s specifically about how to crush 2024, how to dive into the Q1 of 2024 and grow your gym big in the first quarter, specifically while working less than five hours per week on growing your gym.

So Mark’s going to give you a very specific playbook in [00:02:00] this webinar, where in less than five hours of effort. Per week, you can grow your gym big in the first quarter. And he’s offering this webinar twice at Saturday, December 16th and Monday, December 18th, both at 12 noon Eastern time. So click the link in the show notes and register for this free webinar.

What’s not to love. Let’s dive into today’s topic. Welcome to the podcast. Welcome back to the podcast. Chris Travis. How are you, my friend? I’m doing great. Thanks, Michael. I’m so good. I’m so glad to have it back on the podcast. You’re first in the podcast. I think January of 2023 episode one 97. And uh, I want to have you back for a bunch of reasons cause you’re fucking brilliant.

Uh, you are, uh, crushing it still with your gym and super exciting announcement, which is we, you just joined business for unicorns as one of our newest business unicorns coaches. So officially welcome to the team. Thank you. I’m super excited. Yeah, it’s good. It’s so exciting. And this is the first time we really are growing our coaching team in a big way.

And so you’re one of three coaches joining us in January [00:03:00] officially. And so I’m so excited to have you and dear listeners, if you didn’t listen to last podcast, you will hear in today’s podcast why we picked Chris to join our team because he’s an absolute beast of a business owner and, and has so much, we have so much to learn from you.

So thank you for joining the podcast. Do you want to say a little bit about who you are, what your gym is and a little about it by your. background before we dive in. Yeah, sure. So Chris Travis, I’m based in Seattle. So lovely Pacific Northwest. I own Seattle strength and performance. We have a couple of locations, one in the neighborhoods probably don’t really matter.

We have one in Queen Anne in Seattle and then one in Finney Ridge in Seattle. But basically I’ve opened these two locations within four years. So it’s been a wild ride, but as of right now, business, like you said, is doing really well. And my background is interesting. I had a whole corporate background before this.

So I worked at Amazon for about a decade. I’m doing a number of different roles before I left in kind of mid 2019 to do this fitness journey. Yeah, amazing. Great summary. And I think it’s one of the things that makes you unique as a gym owner is that a lot of gym owners [00:04:00] come to owning a gym without having a big career beforehand, without having a kind of, especially a corporate career beforehand.

And one of the things I’ve seen be really helpful for you and other people who followed in your similar path is that you come with all kinds of tools from that corporate world about how to manage people, about how to scale teams, about how to think strategically. About how to create systems, how about how to manage existing systems, refined systems over time.

And so because you came with that system thinking, it’s allowed you to open those two locations in four years. I know you’re on path to maybe even open a third one within the next, in the next year. So that’s wild. Three locations potentially in under five years is really just so impressive. And one of the things I think I attribute that to, and I wonder if you agree.

Is the fact that you came to running a gym with a lot of batteries included, you had all kind of a big toolbox from your previous career. Do you, does that track with you? Yeah, a hundred percent. And I tell a lot of people this, which is most people who come to opening a gym, they’re fitness people first, right?

And [00:05:00] so they train and then they open a gym and then they try and figure out how to run a business. I was the exact opposite where I knew how to run a business and had a business background, had to learn the fitness side. Yeah, it just, it’s a little bit different, but I think it’s helped me tremendously coming from that kind of background into fitness.

And obviously opening three and five years is, it’s amazing. It’s amazing. that’s what I want to talk about today. I want to talk a little bit about scaling and how you’re doing it and the systems you’re building to be able to scale. And specifically what I want to dive into today is the staffing piece.

Cause it’s the, one of the trickiest stuff, trickiest parts. we recently released a report, our business unicorns benchmarking report for 2023 and the number one challenge. Jim owner said that they have in running their gym is staffing. It’s funny enough. I was not expecting it was not lead generation. It was staffing and it just goes to show in this kind of quote post COVID ish world that finding people for in person staff is hard.

So that’s a topic I want to dive into with you, but before anything, let’s just start with the. Big, some, a few big questions about scaling. So one is what made you decide that you want to open up multiple [00:06:00] locations? Cause there’s a lot of folks, listeners of this podcast who’ve had one for many years and are happy with one.

And there’s others who want to scale, but haven’t made that decision. So how did you make the decision? Yeah, it’s funny. I just went to the East coast for a week to visit some gyms and to visit a bunch of unicorn gyms as well, and it was a great time and Jack Losey, who’s, who owns fitness and fuel in Boston actually asked me this question at dinner.

He said, Hey, why are you opening a third location? And honestly, I, it sounds cheesy, but I immediately went back to the mission that I have and the mission that SSP has. And our mission is pretty clear, which is to make strength training, inclusive and accessible for every person. And for me, our two gyms are pretty busy.

We’ve got over 450 members now on less than 3000 square feet of total space. So we’re, we’re packing it in every day. And in my mind, for me, if I want to continue on that mission, I felt like I just need to reach more people. I need to continue going big and, and try to get out there. So that’s really what drove me to try to open a third location.

I think that’s so important. It just goes to show the [00:07:00] importance of having a real mission. An admission is really just a statement about the impact you want to make. And the fact that your impact is I want to make strength and conditioning strength training accessible for all the people. It means you need to reach more people.

So that’s super clear. Talk a little bit about the systems. We’re going to get to the people systems in a second. So aside from the staffing part, what other systems have you found to be the kind of trickiest when it comes to scaling? Yeah. It’s all about, especially when I think about running multiple locations and it’s a big, been a big learning for the second one, which is quality control is a big deal and the experience across both locations needs to be pretty consistent.

Now, each location is always going to have its like personality and the community around it, drive some of that. And the coaches that are there drive some of that, but really like you want somebody who walks into an SSP to be like, Hey. I’m going to attend a class here and I know exactly what that’s going to be like, right?

Because I’ve attended a class at location one and location two is going to be the exact same. And so a lot of it comes down to just trying to, to make that as consistent as possible. Everything from the first time somebody walks into the gym, what [00:08:00] their experience is. How you talk to them about the gym.

What are the things that you want them to feel going through the assessment process, getting them onboarded. That’s a big kind of like critical component. And then during that time, it’s like how you follow up with them. What does that SOP look like? How do we make sure they’re having a good experience?

And then even adding touch points beyond that 90 days, and then six months and 12 months and 18 months and making sure people continue to have a good experience with SSP. I think that’s critical. The other thing is from a training perspective, making sure that your coaches are all on the same page. Then no one’s doing some crazy off the wall kind of stuff and that we’re all dialed in on the things that we’re focused on.

And it’s actually something that I’ve learned quite a bit from just like last couple of weeks ago, I hung out with Mike Boyle, strength and conditioning for a day and just seeing how they run their exercise library, which is pretty small and pretty consistent and everybody understands the regressions and progressions and, and all of the clients that come in know exactly what’s going to happen and what the flow is going to look like.

And I think, especially when you think about managing multiple locations, you just have to have that. Experience be super, super consistent. So [00:09:00] that’s why I think that the quality control piece is the biggest. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. So I heard two things really in there is quality control in terms of the client experience from their first visit through their workouts and then quality control of the actual fitness product itself.

Like the experience from the trainers, the exercises being used, the program design, et cetera. Can we just maybe stick on that first one for a second? So I think people, as we said. Come to fitness because they love the programming part. So they think that’s the part that they get and they want that to be consistent.

It’s the client experience part that I see people struggle with the most. Can you talk a little bit about the nuts and bolts about how you design a client experience and then make sure it happens consistently? They talk a little bit about the process of making SOPs, teaching your team SOPs. How does that work for you?

Yeah, I think it was a big learning from the second location, honestly, I think you have, when you have people, you have institutional knowledge. And so if somebody is used to doing an assessment, you don’t even question it. Sometimes you go, Oh, why do we need to write that down? Somebody knows how to do it.

So and so is great at it. Somebody walks in the [00:10:00] gym is great. And then you get to a second location and you try and train that person just using words and the experience doesn’t quite translate. And it was important for us to get that learning and then put everything down on paper and be like, okay, we got to create an SOP.

And. Not only create an SOP, but over time continue refining and tweaking that SOP to get better. I think that’s a big piece that people miss is they put something down and then they don’t continually evaluate it. Like, how can we make this better based upon the feedback that we’re hearing? And that’s like a big piece of running any business or improving any product.

And so for me, that was a big piece of it. And so for us, it was just, what do we want the experience to be when somebody walks into SSP? That first experience, what did we know? What do we want to take them through? What information do we want to give them? How do we want them to feel? And then based upon that, just putting down the SOP of what does that client experience look like the first time they come in and just making sure that’s super dialed in across.

Yeah. I think that when you’re talking about it, I think a lot of listeners will be like, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. And I think so many of them just have that resistance to [00:11:00] writing it down. Right. That feels like such a big kind of daunting project to write down how we do all the things we do.

And the thing I know you and I both know to be true is that once you write it down the first time, you never have to go through that process again. You’re going to tweak it. You’re going to look at it every six months, every year, whenever you’re going to circle back and kind of refine and update. And in some cases, SOPs will be refined on a daily weekly basis for a little while, but then over time they get dialed into the point where you’re really only circling back and updating them maybe a few times per year.

But I think the thing I want to add to. What you said is just to your listeners, just get started. Just pick one thing in your business that you want to be consistent and write down how the person does it. Who’s best at it, right? Find the person who’s best at greeting people, having sales conversations, doing an assessment and have them write down how they do it.

Because in some cases it’s a document. You’re going to write it down with words. In some cases, you’re going to record a video. In some cases, it might be an audio. In some cases, there might be photos needed. To teach people [00:12:00] how to do the thing. So writing down SOPs doesn’t always have to mean you’re writing a giant book, but I think the way you talked about it, Chris, which is just like, just decide what you want the experience to be like, and then start recording it, I think is so smart.

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think the other thing that I try and do and instill on the team is just always be curious. Like we should always be curious how the experience is going, both for the team members and also new members that walk in the gym, what are they experiencing? And is that to the standard that we want them to have?

And if not, let’s talk about it. Let’s evaluate. I think that’s so critical. That piece of like refining and improving it. The thing that I always say is that your SOPs should represent your current best thinking on how to do any specific task in your business and your current best thinking. Should change.

Hopefully you’re all getting better and smarter over time. And especially as you first create them, you’re going to improve very quickly as everyone tries to get on the same page and everyone’s sharing all the best possible ways to do a task. And over time, like I said, that, that wisdom starts to congeal and maybe it doesn’t change as much over time.

But [00:13:00] I think you really hit the nail on the head by talking about the importance of revising and improving it. Let’s do a little bit of a deep dive because I think one of the areas of growing and scaling that you’re really good at, and this absolutely comes from your experience at Amazon, I’m sure, because this is something that a big company with 1.

2 million employees has to be really good at, which is growing and scaling up your staff. And a lot of gym owners listening, maybe you will never have this problem because you’re going to stick with a single location and have two or three staff. But for those of you listening who do want to grow and scale, really important part of this is figuring out how do you grow your people with you?

How do you create a ladder for them to climb, built in levels for them to aspire to and grow into? So can you just talk a little bit about your approach to this? Yeah, I think I care a lot, obviously, about people development. And everybody that’s, that started on my team, I’ve never, I haven’t hired somebody in the middle management role yet.

I’ve taken everybody who started from the bottom and I’ve tried to develop them up to the organization. And that’s generally, uh. A philosophy that I like and appreciate. [00:14:00] And, and so that’s always been my go to in terms of developing. I think one, it goes back to hiring, try and hire the right people. You, you won’t hit it out of the park every single time, but if you hire and you have a good hiring process, most of the time you should get pretty quality people in the door.

And then from there, it’s about really understanding what do they want to do? As they get going, how do they want to contribute best to the organization? And so for us, we have. Formal and informal check ins pretty regularly. One is we have a one on one every week with your direct report to understand how things are going, tackling the immediate challenges, but then our performance review processes, we have an informal six month review every year.

We have a full year official review every year. So we’re really dialed into kind of like how people are performing, how they’re trending. And then also really having conversations about, Hey, you’ve been in SSP six months now, what do you like? What don’t you like? What’s lighting your fire? What do you want to get better at?

So that we can start to figure out ways to get them into the organization and put them on paths that they can contribute in the way that they want to contribute. [00:15:00] And so that’s really the big piece of it. Yeah, I think that’s a great foundation. And for some folks listening, that might just be the place to start.

So before you worry about, you mightn’t have an opportunity yet to create multiple kinds of jobs, but for starters, if you can at least have a consistent hiring process. We’re hiring people for really specific competencies and characteristics that align with your values like that’s a good place to start the hiring process should be consistent and then having a regular check in process, I think, and for most of them, they should just do exactly what you said, which is some weekly touch base, maybe bi weekly if they have to with a direct report and then I don’t know.

Every six months, the casual, how you doing on your job check in, and then a little bit more formal sit down once a year, I think that’s a great recipe. So listeners just go steal Chris’s recipe. Do that. So once you’re doing that, Chris, and you’re checking in, you have a sense of what people are good at, where their strengths are, what their passions are, what their weaknesses are.

What next? Yeah. You want to have some kind of idea of what a development path and career path looks like within your [00:16:00] organization. It doesn’t have to be super fancy and obviously like small training gyms. Sometimes we only have so many places people can go and that’s totally fine. I think for me with the ambitions that I have to open multiple locations, I realized that there is an opportunity to build into kind of a central management.

And to elevate people into serious leadership roles, whether managing people across multiple locations or functions across multiple locations. And so I always, I try to do my best. Early on to identify, are people interested in that? And if they’re interested in that, do I feel like they have the capability to get there and the development path?

And if so, I put my time and effort into trying to get them to get there. And I think one is it’s great for you because these people are bought into your mission. They’re bought into what you want to do and, and they want to contribute to the organization. And for them, it’s also great because in fitness, honestly, there’s not a huge career path.

It’s not well regulated. And so a lot of people are like, I don’t know how to find full time jobs in fitness. I don’t know how to grow my career in fitness outside of just being a coach 40 hours a week on the floor, which is, we all know, not really [00:17:00] sustainable for a lot of people. And so that’s been my general philosophy.

And then once I find that, just trying to work with them and develop them into managers. I think that. That piece is so important in the hiring process that if you want to hire someone who you want to develop for maybe many years to come, you got a screen for that in the hiring process. Cause I know there are so many people who work in fitness who only want to work part time.

That’s all they ever do want because they have a family or they have another job. Or they have, there’s folks who come and work at our gyms who they know they’re just there for a few years as a stepping stone. So they really want to go work in some professional athletic team doing sports performance, or they’re only here for a little while because we don’t want to do the modality of that are most in love with.

They really want to go do be a yoga teacher. And for those folks, you might want to hire cause they might stick around for two years, but they’re not the folks you’re going to invest in to become your managers and your leaders. So I think that’s a very specific thing to screen for that dear listeners, if you haven’t been used to screening for that.

Add that to your checklist. If you want someone who’s going to be around for a while and wants to become a manager someday, not only wants to [00:18:00] get trained on the floor, but wants to, to manage the people who trained on the floor. And I can’t tell you how many times that MFF we’ve had just rockstar employees, rockstar trainers who so many of them who never wanted to do a single management task.

And we just, we didn’t screen for that originally, because that’s not what we needed when we hired them. And then over time, some of our best trainers, most beloved people, great humans, amazing skills, just were like Hell, no, there’s no amount of money you can pay me to manage other trainers. I don’t want to be a manager.

I don’t want to do computer work. I don’t want to be in meetings. And so that’s real. And a lot of folks who get into fitness because they don’t want to be in front of a computer doing that stuff. And so you got to look for people who want a little of both. They exist. They’re real. And Chris is, you’re a good example of it.

Yeah. You like the fitness stuff, but you’re also very happy doing the business stuff and that’s sometimes hard to find. Yeah, it totally is. And I think as my team has grown to, we’re about 10, 10 full time staff now. And it’s been an interesting journey because I think early on I hired [00:19:00] people thinking about how they can grow into managers in the organization later on and manage a team and people.

And obviously that, that involves reducing the training hours that they have on the floor and giving them more management responsibility. I’ve also realized like you is. There are some people that just want to coach that don’t want to take on management responsibility. And so this year I actually was forced to think about what is the leveling path for those people.

And I have a pretty drawn out, like leveling guide and career path for people who want to go into management. And that’s pretty clear across the team. And this year I had to create a similar thing for coaches. At a certain point with coaches, there will be a kind of a cap out because there’s only so far they can go as an individual contributor within a small organization.

But I still think having that path. And having an understood by coaches, some of them might be like, Hey, that’s okay. That’s what I want to do with my life. I just want to coach. I just want to hang out and do this. And that’s totally cool. But you want it. You want to be able to have space for those people, especially if they’re great coaches and they contribute a lot to the community.

100%. Well, let’s just break down those two paths for a second. Let’s just [00:20:00] talk about the path to management for a second. So if you have some coaches and maybe we’ll break this down for our listeners specifically, if they have some coaches and they want to put them on a path to becoming a manager, what are the kinds of things you think they need to learn and invest in?

Yeah, I think the big thing obviously is like people management. And so usually what I do is I’ll start with one person, give it one person. mm-Hmm . And then we will really manage that closely when I’ll have skip level check-ins with that person. So like maybe every once one, two or three weeks I’ll check in with them just to see how things are going.

And then the most of my one-on-one with my direct report is about how is the management, sure. What challenges are you facing? How can I support you and help you? And I think the biggest piece is like as a new manager, learning how to. You’re no longer, there’s some individual contributor things that you have to do, but really the majority of your work really flows down to how well do you work through your people, right?

And that’s a big mindset shift from people who have been used to being individual contributors. And I see [00:21:00] this a lot. It’s a pretty natural career thing for people in their late 20s. Once they start doing a career and then all of a sudden they start to become a manager. That shift naturally happens as they get a team.

And so that’s the biggest piece, like just start to get them comfortable with that, how they develop people, how they have those conversations, because managing. Managing people’s emotions and managing people’s ambitions and all of that stuff. That’s a full time job. That’s a whole thing. It’s a whole nother skill set that if you haven’t done it before, it takes time to get good at.

Yeah. Yeah. And it’s never the same with two employees. They’re all, it’s always different. Yeah. Always different. So I think I love so much about that because I think mentioning that there’s a real mindset shift from someone who’s gone from being an individual contributor to managing people. And I think there’s a few, but the one that you mentioned is specifically getting used to the fact that their work is other people’s work, right?

That their output is helping other people be successful. I think that’s one big one. The other one I’ll add to this conversation is I see a lot of managers not used to being seen as the boss. [00:22:00] To go from being peers with everyone one day to the next day being, being the man, being the one who reinforces the rules and gives the feedback.

And that’s, that can be sticky. So much of what I talk about this podcast when it comes to management and leadership is that it’s about our relationship, right? And so that change in relationship from. Peer to manager or boss can, can be a big shift for a lot of folks. And then you talked about really wonderfully about all the nitty gritty things you need to learn.

It’s just about how to actually manage people, but how to have effective meetings, how to have those feedback conversations, how to hold standards. And I love that you mentioned that as the first thing you do is just give them something to manage. They have to, they have to learn this by doing it right.

It’s like being a trainer. You can’t, you can only get so far by reading the books. You have to just go pick up some weights with some other people and coach them through it. Yeah. And I think especially with new managers, it’s about asking. And I think really this is like coaching. Anybody is like asking open ended questions.

Even if you know the answer to something, how would you handle this situation? And getting them to think in like different [00:23:00] frameworks when like really brainstorm how they would approach something helps them learn. That’s exactly it. Cause often being a manager for the first time requires learning a bunch of mental models that are not immediately obvious if you’ve never managed people before.

And so I think that’s great. And maybe we can dedicate a whole podcast to that. Cause we’ll have you back. We’ll talk more about that. Let’s just talk briefly about the other path. So for folks who are trainers maybe, and are never going to be anything else, like they just. They just want to coach. They want to be on the floor.

Yeah. They like being with clients. What’s that path look like for you? Yeah. It’s interesting. Like I, and I got this MFF when I was talking to you guys originally was how many hours are sustainable for a coach to actually coach at a full time level. And I just, I’ve never thought that 40 hours was that. I just think it’s too much.

It’s not sustainable. So I cap my coaches out at 20, 25 hours a week of full time coaching. And then I have them do some other stuff. There’s some standard end of coach kind of checklist stuff like social media. You got to post, send me two stories a day. You got to that kind of stuff. I also think. For coaches that really want to grow, I found that like, they, they definitely want to get into the [00:24:00] programming side.

And we have a central program design team who does most of the programs for our personal training clients and our classes. But I think people who want to grow, that’s the area that they want to grow in. And so I’ve started to think about how do we give them more responsibilities, especially as we have more locations and more clients, how do we give them more responsibilities on that side?

And so that path maintains the level of coaching they do every week. But just increases slowly the level of responsibility that they have on the program side. And in addition, think about there’s that, that acronym SME, which is like subject matter expert, finding the things that they can own in the business that is like their piece and hopefully those things, some of those things are incremental drivers of revenue.

And I think about examples like, Hey, if somebody wants to do a powerlifting club, cause they’re really into powerlifting, letting them run that at the gym. And be the subject matter expert for that. Or, Hey, somebody wants to run a Spartan raise. Okay. This person is going to be our subject matter expert here.

And they’re going to do all our programming and do all of our logistics for that [00:25:00] program. And just having them be like those point people on the team for those particular things, I think is another big kind of leadership step without actually having to manage. Yeah. I think that’s so smart, Chris, because you’re right.

The folks who don’t want to manage, they don’t want to manage because they really are passionate about the content of training. Right. They’re passionate. They, and they really often are subject matter experts in a certain area or want to be. So I love the idea that they get to stay on the floor as much as they want and what their path to development or growth or more money is really about more responsibility off the floor where they can own a certain kind of program design or a certain side revenue generator.

Nutrition, barbell club, whatever it is. Exactly. Yeah. So I think that makes a lot of sense. That allows you to really leverage their strengths without forcing them to be the manager. They don’t want to be. Yep. We can keep going all day on this topic because I think there’s so much to unpack, but I want to start to wrap it up a little bit.

So let me just say this. So for folks who are just beginning this journey of scaling up their teams, where do they start? What is the kind of [00:26:00] big picture planning you did initially to chart this course? Yeah, I think it’s like with everything we should be doing. It’s all an experiment, right? And so just start somewhere and then really be curious and take learnings and then adapt as you go.

I think the one thing I’ve learned as I’ve thought about this third location specifically is like, how many people do I actually need to run on them? And I think you should be really curious about that because I think there’s a lot of complexity. That goes into right. If you were in a single training gym, you spin off all of these different things.

You have all of these different programs. You got people doing these things, nutrition and power lifting or whatever it is that you do. And I think if you really broke that down to the bare bones, like what do you actually need to run a successful training gym? And that’s how the, that’s the model I’ve used for location three.

And that’s where I would start is like, how many people do you think you need to run a full schedule? And it’s bare bones and just try and keep staffing to a minimum at first, because you want to keep your operational expenses low and really understand what do I need? Is it two part time coaches? Is it two full time coaches?

Is it one and a half coaches? What exactly do I need to [00:27:00] run the full schedule that I want to run and then start there and then slowly you can evaluate and build from that, from that point. I think it’s a great starting place. And I think it’s so critical to keep the staffing simple. It’s one of our, it’s our biggest costs right up there with rent.

And so if you can keep that. at a minimum and really be as efficient as possible. That’s where the profitability comes from. It’s overstaffing that kills most gyms, that or rent. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you for today’s conversation, Chris. And I’m excited to have you on the podcast more because we’re going to be working together.

And so I hope you found this valuable because I’m planning to make Chris a regular guest. If you want to come work with him or us, Come join us in Unicorn Society. You can always go to our website, businessunicorns. com and apply. But thanks for being on the podcast, Chris. I really appreciate it. And before you leave, I’ll just give one more reminder that Mark’s webinar is coming up.

It’s December 16th and December 18th. And he’s going to be teaching you how to grow your gym. Just like Chris is growing his gym in the first quarter of 2024. So click the link down in the bio and come join us for that free webinar. Thanks for a [00:28:00] great conversation, Chris. See you on the next one. Thanks, Michael.