How to Build a Gym That Operates Without the Owner, with Tim Lyons

[00:00:00] Hello, my friends on today’s episode. I am very excited to have special guest, Tim Lyons first time on the podcast. Many of you know him as a gym owner. He’s also the founder of profit marketing solutions does amazing business coaching for gym owners. He’s also has got a podcast called the built to grow podcast, and we cover so many topics.

I really wanted to take advantage of. Tim’s amazing knowledge in this industry, having worn so many hats. So we’ve talked about digital marketing. We talk about what separates top performing gym owners from those who struggle. We talk about how to build your gym so that maybe someday can run without you.

We cover a lot of really. important topics. I think all of you will love. He also has given us a fantastic discount code for his upcoming event. It’s the, it’s the pro fit growth summit tapping in Chicago, September 5th and 7th. So for more information about that and then a discount code, check the show notes below, but if you’re ready to dive in, I hope you really enjoy this great conversation with Tim Lyons.[00:01:00]

Welcome to the business for unicorns podcast, where we help gym owners unleash the full potential of their business. I’m your host, Michael Keeler. Join me each week for actionable advice, expert insights, and the inside scoop on what it really takes to level up your gym, get ready to unlock your potential.

And become a real unicorn in the fitness industry. Let’s begin.

Hello, fitness, business nerds. What’s up. Welcome to another episode of the business for unicorns podcast. Today. I’m very excited for my guest. First time on the podcast, a man for many of you who needs no introduction. It’s Tim Lyons. Welcome to the podcast, my friend. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Yeah. I’m so glad to have you. You’re a man who’s worn many hats in your life. I just said your bio at the beginning of this episode, but for [00:02:00] anyone who’s maybe just discovering you for the first time on this podcast, can you just give like the one to two minute version of who the heck is Tim Lyons and what are you up to these days?

All right, easy peasy. I know myself well. So first and foremost, gym owner, just like many of the listeners today, I started my gym in oh nine, ventured into business coaching around 2015 started as an agency, just Facebook funnels, automation, and then ventured into move towards coaching systems, operations, getting the gym owner removed from the day to day and gym owner freedom.

And that’s where I’m at now. So we’ve got a coaching program and a mastermind and an event and all kinds of cool stuff. Yeah, I love it. Like I said, you’ve been in the industry for a long time and a lot of your knowledge is really centered around digital marketing. So I want to start our conversation there, if that’s okay.

And I’ll ask a really impossible to answer, but big picture question, which is, what changes have you seen in the digital marketing landscape over the last few years, it feels like [00:03:00] it’s always changing and moving, but from my conversations with guests, those podcasts and clients we work with, it seems to be changing.

even faster in the last few years. So how do you describe the changes you’ve noticed in digital marketing? When we say digital marketing, I’m thinking all of the channels, but most gym owners really only know Facebook and Instagram. And if we’re going to focus there, when I first started running ads for gyms in 2015, it was the wild west.

It was stealing. Heck, I won’t lie. Nobody really knew what they were doing. We were still killing it, right? It was throw anything out there and people would react. Now, fast forward to Today, even in the early days, the cost per CPM, the impression was increasing at a rate of 25 percent per quarter for years.

And it accelerated after Facebook went public, obviously they need a return on their investment and everything today is pay to play. And so when I think digital market, I’m really thinking paid [00:04:00] strategies and omnipresence. And yeah, there’s still winning strategies that you can attack on Facebook and Instagram, but I really think you need to adopt a what we call poles in the water approach.

The analogy is you ever gone deep sea fishing, they got poles all over the boat, some are at the top of the surface, some are deep, some are mid level, and you got different hooks, different bait, you’re going towards different mediums. And I don’t think there’s one home run, right? But if you do find a home run, if you do find a campaign that’s getting good return on ad spend and you’re getting a steady flow of clients coming in, I would say pull the other rods up and go all in because They’re few and far between anymore and never turn off marketing ever, even if it’s slow.

Even if you just take it down to a trickle, it’s much harder to restart marketing than it is just to keep a couple, some coal on the fire. The analogy is a train, right? [00:05:00] You got a train in motion. It keeps to stay in motion. It’s easier than trying to start it from a dead stop. So, yeah, it’s more expensive.

There’s more competition and it’s not just gyms, it’s online fitness programs. It’s the jeweler down the street trying to show ads to your same market, right? An omnipresent approach staying within Instagram and Facebook, of course, but then getting into Google and YouTube ads and email marketing and SMS and everything else.

I think direct mail is coming back myself. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve seen people talking more and more about that recently, but Tim, I love your fishing analogy. I grew up in a fishing household. So the idea of like multiple poles in the water is really vivid for me. I think I, when I talk about marketing with some of our folks, I say all the time, my different bait catch different fish.

And so you really have to be putting out different poles, different bait in the water. And I think suggestion there that like, when you find something then that works, just double down, triple down on that. I think all too often I talk to gym owners who are like, [00:06:00] I’ve run, I’m running one ad on Facebook.

What else could I be doing? So, okay, now go run another on Facebook and then two more on Instagram as, as much as your resources allow. You have to be testing more than one thing at once, because as you said, you’re only going to hit gold every so often. And so you really need to be testing, uh, follow up questions.

So a big part of what I find makes a difference between paid or organic ads that get traction or not, or is content that is engaging content that stops people and grabs their attentions. What? Tips. Do you have for folks about creating engaging thumbstopping content? I think you guys do a hell of a job at it.

So if anybody wants an example, go look at your stuff for being honest now to a normal gym, that’s in the day to day. And they’re in the trenches. It’s very hard to stop, create a video with a script and a storyline. I would say getting just authenticity out there, tips, tricks, things that you can help the end consumer.

No matter what piece of [00:07:00] content you put out there, look at it as somebody should be able to get a result from the content that I’m delivering. Even if it’s as simple as post workout nutrition. Just as simple as what should I wear to the gym, right? Think about what your clients are asking you on a day to day basis.

And the things that you hear more than once, that becomes a piece of content. And you just shoot a video. Yeah, I think video is king. You can leverage video in a lot of different ways. But most people consume video more than, say, written words or a blog or something like that. Engaging, funny, you gotta get their attention in the first couple of seconds or they’re moved on.

And it’s getting shorter and shorter. I heard six seconds, It’s probably one second now for being honest. Our attention span is dwindling by the day. Yeah. I think that, I think it’s so smart all too often that I think gyms are creating content based on what they want to talk about. And I think your point here is so well taken, which is no, think about what your end user wants.

What’s a problem you can solve for them? What’s some information you can [00:08:00] provide that they really desperately need right now? And how do you make it clear in the first few seconds that, You can solve that problem or provide that, that, that tool. I think that’s really critical to getting people’s attention.

Cause our attention is such in such short supply. Yeah. They’re getting bombarded every day. I don’t know what the numbers are. Like the amount of ads people see today versus in the 1950s. It’s like 1000 X. Yeah. It’s brutal. Yeah. We’re not designed to deal with this onslaught of information every day. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Okay. So stepping away from marketing for a second, I want to talk just big picture because at this point you’ve probably seen hundreds or thousands of gym owners come and go in your work in one way or another. And so I’m just curious as you reflect back on all of that experience, what are some of the key.

Yeah. Traits of kind of top performing gym owners, the ones that really their gyms really stand the test of time versus ones who struggle and don’t make it. What do you think really makes the difference? Great question. I think [00:09:00] there’s a big divide in the industry on hobbyists versus true business owners.

Now, hobbyists not being negative hobbyists, being passionate in the industry. They’re a coach. They love helping people, but then they get into the business world and they don’t know. What to do or what not to do. You give them any issue on the training floor, they’ve got a solution for it. But when you get into business, we’ve got to take this seriously.

Unfortunately, it’s the boring stuff and the stuff that probably most gym owners that come from the training world don’t really want to avoid for being honest. It’s the systems, it’s the processes, it’s the performance evaluation and performance plans for your teams. It’s the, the annual marketing plan and the PNLs and it’s all the things.

So the difference between the two, most of the guys and girls that we work with that end up finding success in this industry, aren’t the ones on the training floor anymore. They’ve decided that’s probably not the best use of their time, although they enjoy it. They would, they need and understand that they need to be [00:10:00] working on the business and out of the day to day.

And that’s really where we focus. My, our, our, our whole ethos at Profit is we help gym owners win. It’s not necessarily gyms. We do it through gyms, but we really care about the owner because the owner. That’s the guy and girl that signed their name on the line that put their house up as a personal guarantee when they Signed and took that leap, right?

And if the business isn’t serving the owner the one that took the risk invested all the time in blood sweat and tears Then something’s wrong If they’re not, if they’re not living their best life, if they’re not, if the thing isn’t paying them is all of the things, then, then we’ve got to get in there and fix it.

I think it’s unfortunate, but there’s like, there’s a badge of honor for a gym owner to do all the work. I, I, I’m a hardware, there’s nobody harder working than gym owners. If we’re being honest, like the hardest working folks, they will not turn down a job. They’ll go fix the damn equipment. If they, they know how they’re going to do it [00:11:00] because they’re not afraid of work.

That doesn’t mean that’s the smartest thing to do. So really, Michael, it’s the guys and girls that get off the training floor, understand the business side of it. And those are in the, put their people in place as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, your job is job creation, not doing the job. Yeah. So it’s just a little, it’s just a little attitude shift.

It’s a little focus shift that really makes the difference. Yeah, it’s a really important distinction, Tim. And I think what I’m hearing you say in summary is that the gym owners that really make it long term, those gyms really last, they are really focused on getting time to, to work on the business. They don’t allow themselves to get stuck on the training floor.

And that really resonates with me because I, too often I talk to gym owners who are bragging about being on the floor for 40 hours and then working another 30 hours off the floor, which, you know, I lovingly, Tell them like, that’s not the goal, right? And also, I don’t think you’re doing very good work if you’re really working 70 hours a week.

You’re not actually doing your best work. Um, but I think, you know, I think [00:12:00] it’s really useful. So let me ask you this. For anyone listening to the podcast right now who are like, yes, I do want that, Tim. I want to spend less time on the floor, more time working on my business, growing the business. Um, but they’re not sure how.

Like, how do they get started? It’s an attitude shift first. So yeah, the fact that they decided listening to this today. Yeah. They, so in order, somebody has got to do the job. So whatever you’re doing, that’s not serving the business. You need to find somebody to replace you. And it’s the way that we do it is we always train uphill, not downhill.

So we should, at the end of the day, in a perfect situation, if everybody’s trained up a level. It’s never the gym owner coming down to cover. It’s never the gym owner coming down to make sales. It’s never the gym owner coming down to train a class or a session. It’s the person that’s the second year coach or the first year coach moving up to make a sale.

It’s going uphills. It’s job descriptions, it’s performance evaluations and development plans. But yeah, at the end of the day, somebody has got to do the job. It’s either you the owner [00:13:00] or somebody on your team. And believe it or not, Your team guys, they want to do a good job. They really do. They’re not out there to do something horrible and wrong that you’re so afraid of by giving them the responsibility.

They want to do a good job. And so the fact that most gym owners don’t want to relinquish control because nobody can do it as good as them. And all these things are going through your heads right now. Your team was waiting for that nod. I got a great story about a gym owner, 15 year old guy, could easily step out of the operation.

Never did, never could, never wanted to, always felt like he was the guy. And after we started working with him, he joined our mastermind and stuff like that. He finally had a conversation with the gal, who is now his fitness director. And after she’d been there five years, they had a conversation and she said to him, Michael, she said, I was waiting for this conversation.

I’ve been waiting for my nod. I’ve been waiting to get tapped on the shoulder to get put into the game. So he was so relieved. He didn’t think that [00:14:00] anybody could do as good as, and now he’s moved out and he’s actually gone on to sell his gym for seven figures. And it’s amazing. Yeah, that’s amazing. Great story, Tim.

Yeah. I think so often the first step to getting time to work on your business is just picking a few things to delegate, find someone in the business that you can train up to do some of the things on your plate and let minutes make hours. So every minute you don’t have to spend on a task that you can teach someone else is time you have back to help grow the business.

So I think That’s really smart. Maybe let’s keep walking down this path because I think one of the things I know you talk about a lot is helping gym owners get out of their business so it can operate on its own. I think we already talked about delegating is a big part of that. And actually it’s a big part of your gym lasting a long time is being able to work on your business.

But what else does it take? Cause I think, I think delegating is certainly part of it, making sure there’s other people in your business who are trained up to run it, but I also know stepping out of your business entirely. Takes more than that. So [00:15:00] what else does it take? Oh, it takes, we believe in three things.

Number one is systems systems. You can go down a rabbit hole. We talk about marketing systems, sales, delivery, and Ascension, but you need systems. You need automation, believe it or not with AI and everything else. I believe automation is really the key here. And then in third is lead flow. All three, if you have those three things, you’re going to stay.

I guess the lifeblood iss gonna continue right now. Other side of it is the gym owner understanding their numbers enough to know that, hey, you know what, if we don’t make a sale this month or this week or whatever, we’re in trouble or the opposite. And what we really focus is on is, is recurring revenue.

We have such a great advantage. Mm-Hmm. as a gym where, and you know this, you sold somebody 10 years ago and they’re still paying you today because they’re a great member. Yep. Yep. A lot of gyms that we work with or start to work with, or you know, they’re very short sighted. They want to get the money [00:16:00] now, paid in full, short term offers, get the money, get them in the door and never really focus on building that recurring revenue.

And the day that their recurring revenue exceeds their base operating expenses on a month to month basis, that’s when things change, right? If they’re never, if they’re always coming from behind the eight ball every month. Our expenses are 30 and we’re only making 22. I’m recurring. They’re always grasping, always trying to throw things out in the market.

But if you sat and focused for six straight months, eight months, maybe 12. And all you focused on was building your recurring revenue. There’s going to be a point in time where you tip the tipping point of your, of whatever your expenses are. And that’s when clarity sets it. Then you could take a deep breath, your thing.

So we really focus on that when we’re working with gyms is just to get, let’s get to that point. Then we could start worrying about other stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s a really clear path. And I love that part of [00:17:00] the path for you is building systems. I think all too often, I think that’s the kind of not very sexy behind the scenes work that is just so critical that most people did not start a gym to get involved with making SOPs, right?

And training up and performance reviews. But I think if you want your team to run the place without you, The instructions for how you want them to do that have to be clear. And so I love that. That’s kind of part of the formula there. Let me ask you, this is related, but maybe a new topic, a big piece of all the things we’re talking about today is, is having a team.

And I think in this kind of, I’ll call it this kind of post COVID world, something I hear from gym owners all the time is how hard it is to find. Certainly this varies greatly by market, varies greatly by the kinds of jobs we’re offering, full time, part time, hourly, salary, etc. But what’s been your experience in trying to hire over the last few years?

Yeah, yeah. For us, we’ve, we’ve had some recent turnover. Unfortunately in this industry, and you know [00:18:00] this, IHRSA says 12 months is the lifespan of a trainer in this industry. Obviously we’ve got, guys and girls that are eight, nine, 10 years in, but what’s more common is you’re going to have to turn over your staff at least once a year, maybe every other year.

So the fact that you just turn a blind eye is not a good idea. So always be prepared, right? So number one, have your, Have a careers page on your website, right? Take click resumes all year long, right? Have an ad or job posting going year long. I know for us, we use ADP, but there’s paychecks in these other companies that allow you and give you a free listing, either it’s zip recruiter or one of the other ones, and you can just have it up and running.

And that way you’re always collecting resumes. It’s not a. snap higher because you just found out two weeks ago that somebody’s leaving. On the other side of that for longevity is having a path in place for these coaches. In micro gyms like ours, like you, you got trainer and you [00:19:00] got maybe a GM or a fitness director and then you’re the owner.

Like what kind of path is that? So if the GM or manager directors taken, like where do these. younger coaches go. And so what we try to focus on is development in skill sets, be it nutrition or stretch therapy, or maybe they’re our guru on the supplements or whatever, program design. There’s all these paths.

So to try to keep them there. And then understand what drives them. Cause not everybody’s driven by money, believe it or not, especially in the younger generation, they would rather have days off than a raise in some circumstances. And there’s books called, there’s books that kind of help you identify and disc assessments and things like that to identify what your coaches are interested in.

But yeah, never be caught off guard. Have a development plan for your team. Be super clear with everybody. Maybe have other things they can do and always have an ad out there running. And that’s just to be prepared. Now, the flip side of that, you do have a, [00:20:00] you do have a recruit that you’re excited about.

You set up a phone consultation. They’re a perfect fit. And then they still don’t show up to your interview. That’s going to happen. And then you can throw up your hands and be like this generation or they don’t want to work and you can say all that and make excuses or you just. Thanks for letting us know up front.

We didn’t waste our time. Let’s keep moving on. There’s so, there’s so many smart tips in there, Tim. The one I want to highlight for our listeners is to always be prepared, always be running some ad or be looking and searching to have that bench of people you can turn to when you need it. Cause I find the thing that is most stressful about hiring is doing it at the very last minute, very quickly.

And then when you need to find really great people in a week or two, of course, that’s stressful. Of course that’s hard, but if you’re always looking and collecting names and resumes, then when that time comes and someone gives you notice, it’s much less stressful. Much less stressful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that.

All right. Last question here. Last question. So [00:21:00] I’m going to ask you to put on your, you put, pull out your crystal ball and look into the future. I feel like our industry has changed a lot during these kinds of COVID years, a lot more kind of competition in some areas, a lot more online competition with apps and online services.

What is, what is Tim Lyons as crystal ball say we should all be looking at for the future as micro gym owners? Yeah. Yeah. I think we should not worry about online as competition. I would disregard that the type of person and we got tested, right? We got tested during COVID. The type of person that what’s online is not the same person in your gym.

So don’t worry about that type of person. Now, the other thing I would tell gyms is the model you’re in. The model you’re in is gonna probably dictate more success or failure than anything else. And really what I’m trying to throw rocks at is maybe large group training. I don’t think large group training is here for the long term.

I think it’s gonna die very soon. More competition. [00:22:00] Every franchise that’s out there other than Alloy is focused on large group training. So when everybody’s offering the same thing and to the end consumer, they don’t know that your large group training is better programming than their large group training or whatever it is.

To the end consumer, it’s a bunch of people getting sweaty in a room. Everybody’s doing the same thing. Then when, when everybody offers the same thing, you’re going to start competing on price and it’s the lowest price wins and that’s never a good place to be. Where we’re focused and we’ve been focused on since 2010, honestly, it’s a semi private training.

Some people might call it small, whatever you want to call it. It’s customized programming for individuals just with a shared cost environment. So we call it semi private training. You can go four or five or six to one. And I also think, and we’re bringing it in, hormone testing, stretch therapy, more of a holistic approach.

Now, I made that prediction two years ago, and I think I was probably two years too early. [00:23:00] I think it’s going to hit hard. I’m talking to some gym owners now that are partners, partnering with MDs. Hell, look at the Ozempic craze going on right now. You’ve got to be involved in this type of world some way or another.

If all you’re doing is the workouts, You need to at least have support on different levels and depends on how deep in the weeds you guys want to go. You want to get holistic on blood work and hormone panels and everything else. I think it’s worth your time to look into. I don’t think you need to go off and become a doctor or a phlebotomist or any of those type of things.

I think you need to be aware. I guess my crystal ball says a more holistic approach to the gym, more of a medical base a little bit on some level and Further away from a one size fits all large group training model where everybody’s getting sweaty. That’s just, that’s where my head’s at. That’s, that’s awesome.

Well, thank you for that. I’m glad you agreed to break out the crystal ball. I think I, I agree with so much of that. We’ve also been on a small group personal training, semi-private training training [00:24:00] since, yeah. 2011. And so, yeah, I, I, I feel that in my bones and I see the, the trend and yeah. Thank you so much for that.

So let’s wrap things up. Tim, by telling people, what do you have going on? How do they get more Tim Lyons in their life? Do you have any events they can come to? I think you have one coming up soon. We’ve got a big event coming up. It’s our annual event. It’s called the Growth Summit. It’s going to be in Chicago.

It’s September 5th through 7th. GrowthSummitChicago. com. So maybe I’ll get you a code or something. We’ll work out a deal after this. Maybe we’ll put it in the show notes or something. We’ll hook you up, hook up the listeners. Yeah. So that’s our big event. And of course we have our own podcast too. And I think Mark’s going to come on our podcast in a week or so.

Yeah. It’s the, the built to grow podcasts. Yep. Built to grow. Yeah. I’m a listener, so go, go listen to that listeners. Yeah. Yeah. Built to grow. So that’s our, that’s our show and yeah. And our, and we just give it all away. I think you guys do the same. Just give it all away. Let everybody hear the secrets. They need help.

They’ll come find us or you or whatever. And so we’re here to help. I think there’s [00:25:00] enough to go around for everybody. I think everybody can win. And if we all join arms and win together, this would be a great industry. Yeah. 100%. Thank you for that. Dear listeners, go look on the show notes, find out how you can go to Tim’s event coming up and go listen to the podcast.

The built to grow podcast will include a link down below to that. As Tim said, Mark, I’ll be on there soon. So you can go listen to that episode. Thank you so much for your time, Tim. It was great to have you on the podcast and thank you for all your work in this industry. It’s always great to have other folks out there fighting the same fight, trying to help Jim owner succeed and live a great life and make a great impact.

And so thank you for all your wisdom and for sharing it here today. Absolutely, Michael. Thanks for having me, man.